peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Does a heater and circulation pump for a baptismal pool require GFCI protection? Both are hardwired with MC cable. I have searched 680 extensively and I don't think GFCI protection is required.
Baptismal pool
- Thread starter peter d
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Baptismal pool
Pete I do not believe a hardwired pump requires GFCI protection.
That said it looks really bad when you are electrocuted on the way to getting baptized.
I think you may want to provide GFCI protection.
Pete I do not believe a hardwired pump requires GFCI protection.
That said it looks really bad when you are electrocuted on the way to getting baptized.
I think you may want to provide GFCI protection.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Baptismal pool
No, but it wouldn't hurt.
(EDIT - I was thinking the same thing Bob, why take a chance with the big guy! )
[ September 26, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
No, but it wouldn't hurt.
(EDIT - I was thinking the same thing Bob, why take a chance with the big guy!
)[ September 26, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Baptismal pool
Edited to add:
If it holds more than 42 inches of water it might be a pool
[ September 26, 2005, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
What you have described sounds like a hot tub. Yes I understand that it is a baptismal pool and it is located in a church but it is still just a plain old hot tub and will fall under the rules of part IV of 680.
Edited to add:
If it holds more than 42 inches of water it might be a pool
[ September 26, 2005, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Baptismal pool
Mike, I was thinking that may apply, but this gets drained after each use.
At any rate, I will be be providing GFCI protection anyway, because I agree with the sentiments expressed above. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a code reference I was missing.
Mike, I was thinking that may apply, but this gets drained after each use.
At any rate, I will be be providing GFCI protection anyway, because I agree with the sentiments expressed above. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a code reference I was missing.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Baptismal pool
Mike why would you call it a hot tub?
IMO it's just a pool, nothing more.
Mike why would you call it a hot tub?
IMO it's just a pool, nothing more.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Baptismal pool
You know the more I think about it the more I believe it is a pool.'
A hot tub or spa is a pre-assembled listed unit.
Being a Baptist I have seen a baptismal or two and they have all been built on sight.
You know the more I think about it the more I believe it is a pool.'
A hot tub or spa is a pre-assembled listed unit.
Being a Baptist I have seen a baptismal or two and they have all been built on sight.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Baptismal pool
My thinking on this is per the original post:
If it does fall under part IV and is indoors then it would need to comply with part II.
I have a question running around my head about 680,26???????
My thinking on this is per the original post:
This sounds like a hot tub due to the heater and pump. After a friend pointing out that it might hold more than 42 inches of water then it might need to fall under part II of 680.
If it does fall under part IV and is indoors then it would need to comply with part II.
I have a question running around my head about 680,26???????
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Baptismal pool
Some more background: This is a preassembled, prefabricated fiberglass pool made exclusively for baptism. Because it does not contain chlorine and cannot contain standing water (health and safety reasons of course), it must be drained after each use.
The heater is 6kw, 240 volts, single phase, and the pump is 120 volts.
Some more background: This is a preassembled, prefabricated fiberglass pool made exclusively for baptism. Because it does not contain chlorine and cannot contain standing water (health and safety reasons of course), it must be drained after each use.
The heater is 6kw, 240 volts, single phase, and the pump is 120 volts.
Re: Baptismal pool
When you said circulating system,it knocked out Article 427.
Vessel.A container such as barrel,drum or "Tank" for holding fluids or other material.
*I wired one of these years ago..No water circulating system,drained after every use,just the heating element system for the "Tank"..
[ September 26, 2005, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
Pete,Originally posted by peter d:
Mike, I was thinking that may apply, but this gets drained after each use. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a code reference I was missing.
When you said circulating system,it knocked out Article 427.
Vessel.A container such as barrel,drum or "Tank" for holding fluids or other material.
*I wired one of these years ago..No water circulating system,drained after every use,just the heating element system for the "Tank"..
[ September 26, 2005, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
Re: Baptismal pool
Looking at 680.2 why couldn't this baptismal be considered a "hydromassage bathtub"?
It also seems it could be a pool and it also seems it could be a hot tub by definition in 680.2.
Which one is it really? Or is the question "Does article 680 even apply to this installation?"
Another thought is this piece of equipment listed and if so how is it listed..... as a pool or hot tub or what?
[ September 26, 2005, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: pete m. ]
Looking at 680.2 why couldn't this baptismal be considered a "hydromassage bathtub"?
It also seems it could be a pool and it also seems it could be a hot tub by definition in 680.2.
Which one is it really? Or is the question "Does article 680 even apply to this installation?"
Another thought is this piece of equipment listed and if so how is it listed..... as a pool or hot tub or what?
[ September 26, 2005, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: pete m. ]
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Baptismal pool
With one 6kw heater it will take a while to heat.
How deep is the tub?
With one 6kw heater it will take a while to heat.
How deep is the tub?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Baptismal pool
I am not going to battle on this one, I do not know what to call it.
How is your grounding grid coming?
A heater is a common addition to pools in this area.
I am not going to battle on this one, I do not know what to call it.
How is your grounding grid coming?
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Baptismal pool
Does a hydromassage bathtub have heaters?
Does a hydromassage bathtub have heaters?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Baptismal pool
I have to figure they can be had either way.Originally posted by jwelectric:
Does a hydromassage bathtub have heaters?
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Baptismal pool
If you are not going to stay may I borrow your sticks?
Me either but I will pump for as much knowledge as I can get.Originally posted by iwire:
A heater is a common addition to pools in this area.
I am not going to battle on this one, I do not know what to call it.
How is your grounding grid coming?
If you are not going to stay may I borrow your sticks?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Baptismal pool
As a sidnote, one of the church members had wired up the original heater, and connected it to a 120 volt circuit. I think it worked really well. :roll: Somehow they managed to burn it out and it had to be replaced.
I don't remember exactly, but I think around 3-4 feet deep. I does take a while to heat up, especially since the heater operates on 208 volts.Originally posted by jwelectric:
With one 6kw heater it will take a while to heat.
How deep is the tub?
As a sidnote, one of the church members had wired up the original heater, and connected it to a 120 volt circuit. I think it worked really well. :roll: Somehow they managed to burn it out and it had to be replaced.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Baptismal pool
I think this one has been discussed before, and at length. I believe that I had taken the stance that 680 did not apply. My fading memory tells me that I might have based that assertion on the fact that neither recreation nor therapy is going on here. But whatever I said then, I'm standing by it!
Lately, I seem to be doing a lot of agreeing with myself. Should I see someone about that tendency? Is there a DIY shrink in the house (I can't afford to pay a real shrink)?
By the way, I am accustomed to seeing baptisms take place by way of water (from the font) being poured over the head. I've only seen one that even vaguely resembled immersion. That was for a toddler, and he sat in the font. Anyone bigger than a toddler would not have fit. That particular font did have a pump and a heater, though, and I do not know how it was wired.
I think this one has been discussed before, and at length. I believe that I had taken the stance that 680 did not apply. My fading memory tells me that I might have based that assertion on the fact that neither recreation nor therapy is going on here. But whatever I said then, I'm standing by it!
Lately, I seem to be doing a lot of agreeing with myself. Should I see someone about that tendency? Is there a DIY shrink in the house (I can't afford to pay a real shrink)?
By the way, I am accustomed to seeing baptisms take place by way of water (from the font) being poured over the head. I've only seen one that even vaguely resembled immersion. That was for a toddler, and he sat in the font. Anyone bigger than a toddler would not have fit. That particular font did have a pump and a heater, though, and I do not know how it was wired.
Re: Baptismal pool
IMO..
Permanenently Installed Swimming,Wading and Therapeutic Pools.
-And all others capable of holding water in a depth greater than 1.0m(42in.),and all pools install inside of building,regardless of water depth,whether or not served by electrical circuits of any nature.
IMO. these rules will apply.
[ September 26, 2005, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
IMO..
Permanenently Installed Swimming,Wading and Therapeutic Pools.
-And all others capable of holding water in a depth greater than 1.0m(42in.),and all pools install inside of building,regardless of water depth,whether or not served by electrical circuits of any nature.
IMO. these rules will apply.
[ September 26, 2005, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]
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