Basement pricing too High?

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I've already stated my opinion on how stupid us electricians are when it comes to competition so I guess I'm being a little hypocritical when I forgive the illegal side work for less money thing...

I guess I'm kind of torn here.
 
jaylectricity said:
Well then I guess you guys are all saints and have never had to compromise against the government's will.
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Compromise is one thing...flat out ignoring is another.


jaylectricity said:
I guess if you find some unscrupulous EC that is cutting your throat you might want to speak up but in my hippie opinion we are all on this earth together.
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How could one speak up againts an "unscrupulous EC that is cutting your throat "?
If the guys an EC - he's abiding by the rules(licensing, permits, etc )....at least one would hope he is.
If he's found a way to support his family by "cutting my throat"...so be it....but just how long will this unscrupulous EC be able to survive in a low profit world?

Now if the guy is not a bona fide EC...too bad, play by the rules or goto the penalty box :D
 
I do not 'compete' with the fly-by-night guys. They are not 'competition'. All I need to ask the HO is, "Well, are they licensed? Bonded? Insured? Do they have a permit? Is your home and family worth it?"
 
One question is enough for me:
Has the GC/carpenter filed a permit already?

I could care less what the answer is...I'm going to pull a permit.
 
celtic said:
Compromise is one thing...flat out ignoring is another.




How could one speak up againts an "unscrupulous EC that is cutting your throat "?
If the guys an EC - he's abiding by the rules(licensing, permits, etc )....at least one would hope he is.
If he's found a way to support his family by "cutting my throat"...so be it....but just how long will this unscrupulous EC be able to survive in a low profit world?

Now if the guy is not a bona fide EC...too bad, play by the rules or goto the penalty box :D
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I agree with that statement in this way: If there is an electrician who isn't licensed as so...then I guess I say, "Yeah...turn him in," because we went to school and put in the necessary hours to be good qualified electricians who understand that we have human lives in our hands. However if the guy is licensed and doesn't always pull permits I'm not completely against that.

Obviously if the reason he isn't pulling permits is because he wants to break the law and create unsafe conditions for the sake of making a better dollar I'm not going to support him. (or her)
 
celtic said:
One question is enough for me:
Has the GC/carpenter filed a permit already?

I could care less what the answer is...I'm going to pull a permit.
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I did the very same thing a few months ago. I pulled a permit to replace the outdated service and add a few plugs and a light to a basement office. I knew the GC didn't pull a permit and I told the AHJ that I was interested in making sure my work was done properly and inspected to insure that. He was fine with it, reminded me to put an expansion joint in the PVC riser because I had a fixed 90 and signed me off.
 
jaylectricity said:
However if the guy is licensed and doesn't always pull permits I'm not completely against that.

Obviously if the reason he isn't pulling permits is because he wants to break the law and create unsafe conditions for the sake of making a better dollar I'm not going to support him. (or her)
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What possible reason would be worth it for not pulling a permit?
Sure, you could roll the dice and hope you aren't caught...but is it worth it?
You're reputation gets soiled
Fines/penalties get levied
etc
 
celtic said:
What possible reason would be worth it for not pulling a permit?
Sure, you could roll the dice and hope you aren't caught...but is it worth it?
You're reputation gets soiled
Fines/penalties get levied
etc
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I don't know...I guess you're right. I think I'm letting some of my own personal politics about the government in general get in the way of my reasoning when it comes to these things.

I don't want to break any rules in this forum but don't you feel sometimes that the government isn't always in the right? So sometimes I wonder just how important it is to pay the right money to the right agencies just so another human being who is just as fallible as you and I can judge my work.

I really detest when people say things like, "You gotta play the game." In my opinion that is the kind of thinking that will ruin us.
 
jaylectricity said:
I don't know...I guess you're right. I think I'm letting some of my own personal politics about the government in general get in the way of my reasoning when it comes to these things.

I don't want to break any rules in this forum but don't you feel sometimes that the government isn't always in the right? So sometimes I wonder just how important it is to pay the right money to the right agencies just so another human being who is just as fallible as you and I can judge my work.

I really detest when people say things like, "You gotta play the game." In my opinion that is the kind of thinking that will ruin us.
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Don't get me wrong here...the gov't is NOT always correct. Fighting them can sometimes be an uphill battle pushing a large ball...only to have thwe ball run you over. :)

Getting a license is a strange thing...one day you are "just" an electrician ~ the next you are a "licensed" electrician...free (within reason) to do whatever you want. Like it was a miracle or something (for some, maybe it was a miracle they passed the test LOL). But you get the point.

In the case of permits and inspections...mistakes happen on the permits, inspectors make mistakes...yes, we are all human...but when it comes to another's property, there has to be a paper trail.

Of course, this is not true for every State in the union...some have no licensing requirements...no inspections...etc.

When in Rome...
 
jaylectricity said:
I don't know...I guess you're right. I think I'm letting some of my own personal politics about the government in general get in the way of my reasoning when it comes to these things.
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So... are you still advising against my advice? :wink:
 
celtic said:
I would advise against jaylectricity advise regarding Mdshunk's advise.

There's a right way and wrong way to do things.
Doing things the right way levels the playing field(to some degree).
If this other person needs to feed his family, how is that my problem?
My problem - along with many other legit contractors - is the illegitimate guys cutting our throats just to feed "their" family...what about ALL the families that depend on US to keep their Dad employed?
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I agree with Celtics advice, regarding Jaycity's advice, in relation to Mdshunks advice...

I need to feed my family too,...I just try to do it legally...
 
When I started out in the trade, the economy shifted for a few years, and, I found myself laid off, with a family to support, at that time I had the offer to work side jobs, without license, and without permits, very tempting offer, but I at least I knew what a red light was, and understood, going thru that red light had a penalty, very basic concept.
I need to feed my family, would of been a poor excuse, for breaking the law. It was difficult to accept a job, cleaning tiolets, and scrubbing floors, when I was an electrician, with skills, that job provided for my family, and I am greatfull to this day, for having it.
 
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One thing I have never heard electricians complain about: illegal aliens. We may moan and gripe about fly-by-night electricians wiring tract housing at $2/ft?, but how many illegals have you seen with a pair of strippers? Talk to a legitimate sheetrocker, framer, roofer or landscaper if you want to get an earful.
 
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