bath gfci

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LEO2854 said:
ARTICLE 210.11(C)(3)Bathroom Branch Circuits.In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section,at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.

I do not see that you can feed three bathrooms with one 20 amp circuit.
in the Exception on the next page.
Where the 20 amp circuit suplplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bath room shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1)and (A)(2)

so i would say you need three 20 amp circuits for three bathrooms.
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480sparky said:
If you take a single 20a circuit to three receptacles in 3 bathrooms, that's legal.

As soon as you hook something else up in one of the bathrooms to that circuit, such as a bath fan or towel warmer or in-wall heater or light, then that circuit cannot be taken to any other bathroom. You must have another 20a circuit to feed the other two.

Now, if you hook up a bath fan or towel warmer or wall heater or light in either of those two baths, you now must 'dedicate' that circuit to that bathroom, and you need yet another 20a circuit for the third bathroom.

But you can legally take one 20a bathroom circuit and feed 50 bathrooms (yea, it's gonna be one big house!) that have 5 receps each, as long as it only feeds those 250 receps.
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The last sentence of 210.11(C)(3)states that,"Such circuits shall have no other outlets".
It does not say you can feed multiple bathrooms with one circuit.
Can you point out where in the 2008 NEC that says that you can feed more than one bathroom with the required 20 amp circuit for the outlet?
 
LEO2854 said:
The last sentence of 210.11(C)(3)states that,"Such circuits shall have no other outlets".
It does not say you can feed multiple bathrooms with one circuit.
Can you point out where in the 2008 NEC that says that you can feed more than one bathroom with the required 20 amp circuit for the outlet?
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210.11(C)(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.


Where does it say anything about ONE bathroom per circuit?
 
480sparky said:
210.11(C)(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.


Where does it say anything about ONE bathroom per circuit?
Click to expand...

Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
The very last sentance.
 
LEO2854 said:
Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
The very last sentance.
Click to expand...

4baths.jpg


Legal. I have one circuit feeding the receptacles in 4 bathrooms. It has no other outlets. I have complied with 210.11(C)(3).
 
480sparky said:
4baths.jpg


Legal. I have one circuit feeding the receptacles in 4 bathrooms. It has no other outlets. I have complied with 210.11(C)(3).
Click to expand...

As usual the code does not make it perfactly clear and 210.11(C)(3) is no exception
Here is what i would do, run 3 -20 amp circuits one for each bath room GFCI,
And one 20amp circuit for lights and exaust fans in all 3 bathrooms.
now the inspector cannot flag me for the last sentence of 210.11(C)(3)

And i have been flaged for daisy chaining the gfci circuit from one bath to another .
 
LEO2854 said:
As usual the code does not make it perfactly clear and 210.11(C)(3) is no exception
Here is what i would do, run 3 -20 amp circuits one for each bath room GFCI,
And one 20amp circuit for lights and exaust fans in all 3 bathrooms.
now the inspector cannot flag me for the last sentence of 210.11(C)(3)

And i have been flaged for daisy chaining the gfci circuit from one bath to another .
Click to expand...

The last sentence is perfectly clear. I can't use the 20a bath circuit for anything but the receps. If I do (according to the exception), then I can't have that circuit feed anything outside the bath.

Why a 20a circuit for the lights & fans? I usually use a local 15-a general purpose circuit for that.

As for daisy-chaining one bath to another, either your inspector needs educated, or you have a local code.
 
480sparky said:
The last sentence is perfectly clear. I can't use the 20a bath circuit for anything but the receps. If I do (according to the exception), then I can't have that circuit feed anything outside the bath.

Why a 20a circuit for the lights & fans? I usually use a local 15-a general purpose circuit for that.

As for daisy-chaining one bath to another, either your inspector needs educated, or you have a local code.
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Why a 20a circuit for the lights & fans? You can use a 15 amp circuit i have no problem with that.
As for daisy-chaining one bath to another, either your inspector needs educated, or you have a local code.
I do not agree with the inspector but he has the authority and i do not find his request unreasonable.The mass Electrical code does not address this issue.
The last sentence is perfectly clear. The inspector sites the last sentance of 210.11 (C)(3) as the reason for the home run for each bathroom gfci circuit.
 
LEO2854 said:
........I do not agree with the inspector but he has the authority and i do not find his request unreasonable.The mass Electrical code does not address this issue...............
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No, the inspector does not have the authority. That would be the AHJ, which will be further up the chain of command. Inspectors are in enforcement and cannot legally make up codes any more than police officers can make up laws.


LEO2854 said:
............The inspector sites the last sentance of 210.11 (C)(3) as the reason for the home run for each bathroom gfci circuit.
Click to expand...

Then he's dead-arse wrong. Given the chance, I'll challenge him.
 
LEO2854 said:
As usual the code does not make it perfactly clear and 210.11(C)(3) is no exception
Here is what i would do, run 3 -20 amp circuits one for each bath room GFCI,
And one 20amp circuit for lights and exaust fans in all 3 bathrooms.
now the inspector cannot flag me for the last sentence of 210.11(C)(3)

And i have been flaged for daisy chaining the gfci circuit from one bath to another .
Click to expand...

If you have been flagged for an install like 480sparky drew then your inspector is not correct. I agree with Ken it is perfectly clear.
 
Im just a dumb wireman thats why I buy the nec handbook so I can look at pictures .see exhibit 210.9 . It will clear this up. One picture shows a 20 amp circuit coming in and conected to sink gfci and shows the 20 amp going back out of that bath and it says to other bathroom receptacle outlets, the lights are connected to a general lighting circuit.. The next picture shows a 20 amp coming in to bath and connected to the gfci and also to the bath lights and the 20 amp circuit does not leave the bath.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
If you have been flagged for an install like 480sparky drew then your inspector is not correct. I agree with Ken it is perfectly clear.
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480sparky said:
No, the inspector does not have the authority. That would be the AHJ, which will be further up the chain of command. Inspectors are in enforcement and cannot legally make up codes any more than police officers can make up laws.




Then he's dead-arse wrong. Given the chance, I'll challenge him.
Click to expand...

ARTICLE 210.11(C)(3)Bathroom Branch Circuits.In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section,at least one 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom receptacle outlet(s).[" Such circuits shall have no other outlets"}.

the last sentence of 210.11(C) (3) "SHALL HAVE NO OTHER OUTLETS"
"Bathroom" not "bathrooms"
In the state of massachusetts the inspector of wires is the AHJ regardless of the rules and laws of other states. The inspector of wires has full authority of interpretation of the NEC And the massachusetts electrical code (AMENDMENTS)

chapter 143:section 3P . Appeal to the board of Electricians ' appeals;judicial review .
section 3P Whoever is aggrieved by notice ,interpretaion,order requirement or direction of an inspector of wires charged with the enforcement of the rules and regulations of the board of fire prevention regulations, may ,within ten days after the notice therof,appeal there from,to the board of electricians examiners'appeals.Said board shall,after such notice as it may direct,hold a public hearing on such appeal at a time and place to be fixed by it.But not laterthan thirty days after the entry of such appeal,unless such time shall be extended by agrement with the appellant. The appellant may apear in person or by agent or attorney at such hearing.Said board shall hear all pertinent evidence and determine the facts,and shall issue an appropiate decision or oder reversing, affirming or modifying in whol or in part said notice,interpretation.order, requirment or direction.Such decision or order of the board shall be made within a reasonable time and within forty-five days after such hearing,unless such time is extended by like agrement.The board shall forthwith send by registerd mail a copy of its dicision or order to the interested parties.
and it goes on and on and on.
So as you can see the inspectors request is not that unresonable after all.
 
Leo it is well documented what the intent and what the wording of this section means. If you wrote bathrooms in that sentence it would be grammatically incorrect as you wouldn't say "to supply bathrooms receptacles outlet(s).

So you think the inspector can just do what they want regardless of interpretations? I think many people overthink this stuff, myself included. IMO, the inspector is completely wrong.
 
Leo, I double checked the MA amendments and there are no changes from the NEC.

You can run the circuits as shown in the graphic Jumper posted and the inspector must accept it.
 
LEO2854 said:
............the last sentence of 210.11(C) (3) "SHALL HAVE NO OTHER OUTLETS"
...............
Click to expand...


And

it

does

not

have

any

other

outlets.




Do

you

see

any

other

outlets?




I

don't

see

any

other

outlets.




If

you

see

any

other

outlets,

please

point

them

out.
 
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