Bathroom light fed with #14

[Dennis Alwon]

402.5 "allowable amp. fixture fixture wires. Thhn is not in this table. Therefore its a branch cir., IMO.

You are on a roll Chris but I think you mean Table 402.3

 

[celtic]

Does 402 cover fixture wires or branch circuits?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Art. 402 is called Fixture Wires. Where are you going with this Celtic?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

240.5(B)(2)(2) Fixture Wire Fixture wire shall be permitted to be tapped to the branch circuit conductor of a branch circuit in accordance with the following:
(1) 20-ampere circuits — 18 AWG, up to 15 m (50 ft) of run length
(2) 20-ampere circuits — 16 AWG, up to 30 m (100 ft) of run length
(3) 20-ampere circuits — 14 AWG and larger
(4) 30-ampere circuits — 14 AWG and larger

 

[chris kennedy]

Sorry I'm old and slow. Type with 2 fingers, comprehend with 22 cells. You people talk amongst yourself. Hard for a rookie.

 

[celtic]

Art. 402 is called Fixture Wires. Where are you going with this Celtic?

Isn't the wire going to the fixture part of the branch circuit?

EDIT:
I see Don squeezed something in between my Q: and Dennis's A:

 

[chris kennedy]

There is no defination of "Fixture Wire" In NEC is there? Not in 100 or 410.

 

[celtic]

240.5 Protection of Flexible Cords, Flexible Cables, and Fixture Wires.
Flexible cord and flexible cable, including tinsel cord and extension cords, and fixture wires shall be protected against overcurrent by either 240.5(A) or (B).

From the NECH, commentary following 400.1 Scope:

Flexible cords and cables, because of the nature of their use, are not considered to be wiring methods. Wiring methods are covered in Chapter 3 of the Code. Careful study of 400.7, Uses Permitted, and 400.8, Uses Not Permitted, is required before choosing flexible cords or cables for a specific application.

If the wires are not Chapter 300 wiring methods, does 240.5 apply?

 

[M. D.]

What they are not is branch circuit wiring.

 

[celtic]

What they are not is branch circuit wiring.

What are they then ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

These cords go back to yesterday's question of ext. cords etc on a garage door opener.

Fixture wires are sort of defined in art. 402.3

 

[chris kennedy]

Doesn't say Thhn in FMC.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Doesn't say Thhn in FMC.

I agree. It is a code violation (IMO) whether the fixture wire is a branch cir. conductor or not.

 

[celtic]

Doesn't say Thhn in FMC.

I agree. It is a code violation (IMO) whether the fixture wire is a branch cir. conductor or not.

I seem to have gotten lost here....when did THHN and FMC come into the picture

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I seem to have gotten lost here....when did THHN and FMC come into the picture

Article 402 Table 402.3 Fixture Wires

It lists all the fixture wires. Chris was saying THHN, the 14/2 nm that Trevor used, was not listed as a fixture whip.

 

[chris kennedy]

If I had 100 2x4 lay ins and 1 had a bad 18 in factory FMC I would replace it in a heart beat with a 14/2 MC.

 

[M. D.]

What are they then ?

Fixture wires Did the wires Trevor installed come with fixture? clue one.

Necdigest ?, February 2007

Compiled by Jeff Sargent and the NFPA Electrical Engineering Team

Q. Can I use 14-2 wire for the switch leg of a light fixture where the branch circuit is protected by a 20-amp circuit breaker? If this is against Code, why can I use 15-amp switches and receptacles on 20-ampere circuits?




A. The conductors from a switch location to the lighting outlet it controls are considered branch circuit conductors, not tap conductors connected to branch circuit conductors. These conductors are subject to the general overcurrent protection requirements of Section 210.20(B), which points to Section 240.4 for the specific overcurrent protection requirement. Section 240.4(D) specifies that 14 AWG copper conductors are to be protected by an overcurrent protective device with a rating or setting no higher than 15 amperes. And Table 210.24, which summarizes the requirements for branch circuits with two or more outlets or receptacles, specifies that the minimum conductor size for a 20-ampere-rated branch circuit is 12 AWG......

I agree with this interpretation , sorry Trevor .

 

[celtic]

Article 402 Table 402.3 Fixture Wires

It lists all the fixture wires. Chris was saying THHN, the 14/2 nm that Trevor used, was not listed as a fixture whip.

Thanks Dennis.

 

[celtic]

What they are not is branch circuit wiring.

What are they then ?

Fixture wires Did the wires Trevor installed come with fixture? clue one.

HUH??

The feed to the light is about 4' of #14 NM cable.

That's not a fixture wire, that's a branch circuit.

I am totally confused M.D.
I know what your position is (14/2 is not legal) and I do agree, but unless I missed the sarcasm ~ HUH???

 

[Dennis Alwon]

HUH??
I know what your position is (14/2 is not legal) and I do agree, but unless I missed the sarcasm ~ HUH???

Rough Night tonite Celtic... Not like you,

I think MD is saying since the 14/2 is not part of the fixture that is the first clue that it is not a fixture tap. I think.

I believe MD was trying to clarify his believe that Trevor was off on his thinking.