Bathroom Receptalces

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bphgravity

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A contractor installs receptacles in the bathroom cabinets for toe-kick lighting. The receptacles are not gfci protected and are served through a switch supplied by the general bathroom lighting circuit.

1. Must these receptacles have gfci protection? These are single receptacles inside the cabinet on the back wall?

2. Must these receptacles be served from the bathroom 20-ampere circuit?
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

Originally posted by bphgravity:2. Must these receptacles be served from the bathroom 20-ampere circuit?
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To expand on Ryan's answer to #2, if that bathroom has one and only one circuit, then the lights, fan, and receptacles can be on the same circuit. Nothing requires them to be on the same circuit, but they can be. On the other hand, if the receptacles in that bathroom share a circuit with receptacles from other bathrooms, then there can be no lights or fans on that same circuit. Reference 210.11(C)(3).
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

210.8(A) ALL 125-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles ...

I respectfully disagree with Ryan's answer to question number 2.

It is required to be GFCI protected, even if it is supplying lighting.
210.8(A)(1) Bathrooms does not have any exceptions listed therefore all bathroom receptacles regardless of location or use, will require the GFCI protection.
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

To be fair, Ryan did not say the lighting receptacle need not be GFCI-protected, only that it need not be on the 20-amp bath-receptacle circuit.
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

The common practice in this area is to catch all bathrooms on one circuit, as is this case.

Is it logical to conclude that the intent behind permitting single, "dedicated" receptacles in the garage or basements to not be gfci protected could also apply to bathrooms though not stated in that section.

The receptacles are not in a location that would be used for any other purpose other than the cabinet lighting and they are single receptacles.
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

Agreed. You got the loofa-sponge warmer... the oatmeal and ginkoba facial mask mixer, the heated curlers AND the hair straightener iron, blowdrier, toilet seat warmer and automatic lowerer... soon there'll be 2 SA circuits required for each bathroom or lav! :D
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

1. GFCI - Yes
2. The intent (IMO) of the requirement is for counter recep's in baths to have a dedicated circuit or trade off as mentioned. So these recep's would be OK on the general lighting circuit.
I would try and negotiate for a number of receptacles via single or duplex that would leave none unused so the hair dryer or whatever could be plugged in.
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

First yes it must be gfci ,second only way that toe kicker receptacle can be on the lighting circuit is if its not leaving the bathroom.If it does then it serves receptacles or lights in another area,there fore can not be a bathroom receptacle.RED TAG
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

Originally posted by jimwalker:
second only way that toe kicker receptacle can be on the lighting circuit is if its not leaving the bathroom.If it does then it serves receptacles or lights in another area,there fore can not be a bathroom receptacle.RED TAG
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I don't think so Jim. It comes back to the 'sprinkle' theory. Once the required receptacles are in, then extras can ve sprinkled in to your heart's content.

210.8 has no 'required outlets' nonsense, so it kicks in for all receptacles, regardless.

I just did this in a home. I put a photoeye in the service (it was an available unobtrusive 1/2" KO), to a single pole switch in the master closet (so they could all be turned off and on at the homeowner's option, without triggering the test cycle on the photoeye), to the GFI in the master vanity. From there, vanity receptacle to vanity receptacle. Pretty sweet, they were thrilled with it. :)

To illustrate how widely 210.8 isn't read, the trimmers installed single receptacles on the second floor, not realizing that they were GFCI protected, and thinking the 'single outlet for an appliance rule' applied in bathrooms. (FWIW, 2 10-year journeyman and a 8-year RW trimmed the house.) :p
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

I would like to see the Manf. Insrtuctions for the kick-toe fixture,to see if cord connection is mentioned or just a hard wired type of connection.
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

Originally posted by peter d:
Originally posted by georgestolz:
(FWIW, 2 10-year journeyman and a 8-year RW trimmed the house.) :p
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Maybe you should teach them a thing or two, George. :cool:
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My statement probably looked like "those idiots" but that wasn't intended. My main point is, it is very easy to accept a rule of thumb for 210.8 and not consider each location individually.

Actually, one of the journeyman and the RW does call me now and then, and I am honored by their humility and I have profound respect that the desire to know something is valued over pride.
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Re: Bathroom Receptalces

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Actually, one of the journeyman and the RW does call me now and then, and I am honored by their humility and I have profound respect that the desire to know something is valued over pride.
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Yeah, and I'll bet they eat quiche and ask for directions, too! :D
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

i just ran into this situation on my last house.

frankly i dont care what the rule is. the bathroom was being tiled and imho anything electrical near a potentialy wet floor with baby suit feet goes on a gfi.

in my situation they (the home owner) had originally had a decorative fountain planned for outside the master bath aquarium window but they deleted it after the wire was pulled. i just yanked (easily) it back and landed it into a faceless in the crapper stall and fed the switch. little bit overkill to have a 20a circuit for it but its better then removing the whole run back to the other side of an 8000sqft monster

[ October 14, 2005, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: charlie b ]
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

The post above had contained an abbreviation that was used with innocent intent, but that had inadvertently given offense to one or more members of this Forum. Part of what followed was a bit of the "good natured humor" that we often exchange amongst ourselves. However, even "good natured humor" is out of place, when the subject of the humor singles out a group of people, and achieves its humor at their expense.

To prevent any further exchanges of that nature, however innocently intended, I have edited the abbreviation in the post above, and have deleted all subsequent posts.

Please continue the discussion by addressing the technical aspects of the question at hand.

Charles E. Beck, P.E.
Forum Moderator
 
Re: Bathroom Receptalces

George, I didn't quite follow your post, I admit I an slow at times. With regard to the photoeye and switch, where was the photoeye and where was the light that was being controlled. Thanks
 
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