Bedroom?

[sandsnow]

No one has appointed me anything other than someone who is posting in this forum just as you are doing

I apologize, but your tone led me to that conclusion. I do retract that upon re-reading and seeing that you did qualify it to just your state.


So in Ca. is is okay for the landscaper to make electrical installations?

Actually it would depend on their contractor license. Some do hold a B or C-10 which would allow electrical work.

Is it any wonder that the code enforcement officials are the way they are in your state?

We are a wacky bunch out here, aren't we???

 

[eprice]

Mike said Again the ?electrical? inspector can not enforce anything other than the electrical code as adopted in their jurisdiction no matter what is written in the IRC.

Your reply That would depend upon what duties have been given to the electrical inspector by the AHJ would it not? Can you document your statement with a legal reference, or are you just saying it because "that is how you like it", or "that is how it has always been done around here"?

The answer to your questions as to why I make this statement can be found at this web site
http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineering/COQB/engineering_coqb_home.asp

Could you please point out the words on that site that support your contention? I don't see it there.

In my copy of the IRC I can?t find any rules as to how an electrical installation is to be made. I can?t find where to size wire, raceways, enclosures, overcurrent, ect. I can not find anything other than how the electrical relates to the building codes.

Does your copy of the IRC include Section E3503 Service, Feeder, and Grounding Electrode Conductor Sizing, or Section E3605 Conductor Sizing and Overcurrent Protection?

In North Carolina ... The license holder of the trade is the only person that can request an inspection. The code enforcement officer for that trade will inspect that trade and report the results to that license holder.
The building inspector can not inspect the electrical, plumbing or mechanical unless he is trained in that field and in which case the report will be given to each trade.

In my state the electrical inspector is required to give the section that is in violation when he finds one. Should this violation be from any thing other that the North Carolina Electrical Code (the NEC with two amendments) then this violation is required to be pointed out to the respective trade, ie smoke alarms are a building violation.

I don't see any of that spelled out on the web site you referenced. Is it somewhere else?

Edit: Let me retract that last question, because it really doesn't matter. If the state of North Carolina has laws or rules that require it to be done that way, then good for them. They have the right to set things up that way. I guess what got me going is the implication that it can't be done any other way anywhere else, and that anyone who thought it could work another way somewhere else if the AHJ so decided, is just a dumb cross trained inspector that doesn't know what book to inspect from. Sorry for getting a little heated.

 

[George Stolz]

It's a big country, isn't it?

Around here, all the violations are written on the same piece of paper, if space permits. And I'll be the one to install the smokes. And the GC will probably end up paying for it, one way or another.

So, I reckon I can eat a little crow and admit that a pure electrical inspection would ideally leave building codes aside.

But when in Rome...

 

[andrew]

The plot thickens,

Mike,
You are so adamant about using the NEC only that it seems quite odd that in North Carolina the Electrical Contractors licensing Board in Subchapter 18B - Boards Rules for the Implementation of the Electrical Contracting Licensing Acts. Section .0102(a) says "Pursuant to G.S. 150B-14(c), the North Carolina State Building Code, Volume IV Electrical, and the National Electical Code, NFPA 70, are adopted by reference. whenever a reference is made in the subchapter to these codes, it shall mean the current edition and any amendments thereto. The term "National Electrical Code" when used in these rules includes both codes adoped under this subsection."

Now back to the original post. If it is on the plans as a den/study that is exactly what it is. No bedroom, no sleeping room. As an inspector I cannot "let them know" that they need a smoke when in fact they do not.
I know, you know, and everyone in the business knows where smokes are to go. The wiring method and the termination is my resposibility and if it is not there it will be because I'm not crawling up in the attic on final to see if it was done right.

The exhaust fan in the bathroom is not my responsibility, the wiring method and the terminations are.

How about the ADA, and the Fair Housing act. If the EC does not comply I will fail them every time. It is my job and my license. Take me before any board you want but I will keep failing you or let someone else sign off on it.

By the way I'm not a fail happy inspector and in most cases of the above nature I will either Cancel or fail without a fee. At this point of the construction it is to early for the landscaper so the EC has to do it. :lol:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Around here, if it has a closet (regardless of how small) it is a bedroom. It gets a smoke and an AFCI.

Throwing a tantrum doesn't change it.

Without a definition, then we are at the mercy of the AHJ. Generally, the call makes sense.

Generally, around here, the inspector is cross trained. Does the fact that the NEC doesn't address firewalls exempt us from obeying those rules? No. Same goes for bedrooms, IMO.

think this idea out.Just what do you call a PANTRY ? It just met everything you said

 

[George Stolz]

Generally speaking, my plans don't have the rooms named. So how do I proceed?

Technically, an inspector could walk through and declare everything a bedroom, without a definition in the NEC, right?

 

[andrew]

Mike how do you designate a dining room, breakfast nook, etc without a set of marked plans? Sounds to me like you have a legitimate gripe here. I stick by my last post but can see where your frustration comes from.

To bad about UNC last night

Andrew

 

[dlhoule]

Gee I guess I am never going to move out of MI. I get confused enough with just trying to keep up with how things are done here. They sure are different in other parts of the country.

Great Country we live in though. Some places we probably wouldn't be able to have all these wonderful discussions.

 

[Matt Harp]

Re: Bedroom?

The smoke alarm rule is not in the electrical code therefore the electrical inspector can not enforce the rule.[/quote]

Wanna bet? I ran head on into this one, and lost.

 

[Cavie]

Article 80.7 The title of this Code shall be "NFPA 70, National Electric Code of the National Fire Protection Association. Short NEC. The NFPA has a very big umbrella. In the State of Florida, this gives the AHJ the right to govern the installation of smoke detectors. If you challenge this to the board you will find yourself on the unemployment line of you do not comply.

 

[George Stolz]

Article 80.7 The title of this Code shall be "NFPA 70, National Electric Code of the National Fire Protection Association. Short NEC. The NFPA has a very big umbrella. In the State of Florida, this gives the AHJ the right to govern the installation of smoke detectors.

I've read this quickly, shrugged, and moved on.

I came back and read it slowly. I'm still confused. How does the declaration of the name of the code (in an article that is only enforceable if specifically adopted) somehow authorize the AHJ to enforce codes unrelated to that document?

If you challenge this to the board you will find yourself on the unemployment line of you do not comply.

If I bring a challenge to a board and wind up unemployed, that might actually inspire me to sue somebody, and I'm not the letigious type.