bending question

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

toomunsch

Member
I was always taught that the max bend was 90 degrees. My apprentice says he's being taught how to bend goosenecks in EMT. I looked in the code and couldn't find anything to support this. Thoughts?
 
iwire said:
In my opinion the NEC does not prohibit 360 in a single bend.

We also use 'goose necks' when we have to.
Click to expand...

A 360? single bend is something I have actually seen. Unfortunatly, it was long before I got a digital camera.

Installed was two parallel runs of 3/4" EMT. On the ceiling, the two runs entered side-by-side 8B boxes, then continued on across the ceiling.

Someone, somewhere along the line, decided to take a circuit from one box to the other. Instead of installing a chase or short nipple between the two boxes, they install a single piece of 1/2" EMT bent 360? into a circle.

"Goose necks" are also known a "Bo-Peeps" and "Shepherd's Hooks".
 
You can make a real nice trumpet from a stick of 3/4" EMT :grin: ....we use one to alert the troops that it's lunch time.
 
We have debated this before, but I'm sticking to my guns....

344.26 Bends — Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes.
Click to expand...

A "quarter bend" is olde skool for a 90.... Most benders are not made to bend more than 90 in a single shot anway. So depending on how you read this "equivalent of four quarter bends" - more than 90 is - or isn't an option - I opt for isn't. But that's not to say you can't have a 90, and a 30 right next to it. :cool: Seeming to be a 120 bend...

As 90, 30, 30, 30, 90, 90 is equivilent to 4 quarter bends, but 180, 90, 90 is not IMO. 180 does not equal 90, but 15, 15, 30, 30 do.... And 15, 15, 30, 30, 90, 90, 60, 30 is "equivilent to four quarter bends", ect. in this thinking.

The language, "equivalent of four quarter bends" - ('equal to the quanity of 4 90's') i.e. 360 degrees limited to 4 each, of the 90 max. each, or "equivilent" of the 90 max X 4 - has been in the code since inception as far as I know.

"(360 degrees total)" was added about a decade or so ago supposedly as clarification of something. But I feel it has only muddied the waters.
 
Last edited:
e57 said:
"(360 degrees total)" was added about a decade or so ago supposedly as clarification of something. But I feel it has only muddied the waters.
Click to expand...

For EMT, the reference to "(360 degrees, total)" first shows up in 1951. Article 3490 of the 1947 and 1951 NECs, for those who wish to look it up.
 
So if you can't have two 90's right next to each other (a 180 degree bend), where does is say that there must be any separation in the words "equivalent of 4 quarter bends"? And if in fact a separation is required, where in the NEC does it say what the minimum distance needed is?
 
344.26 Bends ? Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes.

It all depends on how you highlight it.:) 2 180's is the equivalent of 4 quarter bends.
 
If we are limited to four quarter bends it would be worded to state a maximum of bends next to exceed 90? per bend (or similar language). The use of the words "the equivalent of four quarter bends" does not mean "four quarter bends and not a degree over".
 
I disagree with Mark (e57) as well. The way it's worded, if you accept the interpretation that a bend can't exceed 90?, then you'd also have to believe that less than 90? was equally illegal. My bender has 10?, 22.5?, 30?, and 60? marks in addition to the 90? mark, so I think they are perfectly compliant.

I imagine the "four quarter bends" language exists for an easy reference. In the field, I frequently refer to a pipe as having "a turn" or "two turns" left over to use, the word "turn" has fewer syllables than "ninety", and people tend to know what you're saying either way. JMO,
 
georgestolz said:
In the field, I frequently refer to a pipe as having "a turn" or "two turns" left over to use, the word "turn" has fewer syllables than "ninety", and people tend to know what you're saying either way. JMO,
Click to expand...

We say..gimme a stub at 45 1/2" (or whatever the meaurement is)...LOL...if I asked for a "turn" ~ I'm not sure what I would get...maybe bonked over the head with the bender.
 
220/221 said:
344.26 Bends ? Number in One Run.
There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and boxes.

It all depends on how you highlight it.:) 2 180's is the equivalent of 4 quarter bends.
Click to expand...
Right - you are. :) Depending on how you look at it - or how often you like to bend over 90.... After all you're not a forger or a thief until caught and convicted - right? Otherwise you just wrote someone else's name and walked away with some stuff. :rolleyes: (It's an anology - maybe a bad one - not to be taken literaly or in offense...)

But if the code was meant solely to mean not more than 360 degrees why mention the 4 quarter bends at all? Or why does it not say 2-180's? The types of benders capable of such a bend would be found in a muffler shop.

Of the few benders out there that have markings for over 90 they are 91-93 degrees to accomadate for spring back.
 
But if the code was meant solely to mean not more than 360 degrees why mention the 4 quarter bends at all?
Click to expand...

Because it was written by humans and humans are quite often short sighted morons. I'd say at least 25% of the code is open to interpetation and another 25% has conflicting information (see "outlets above ceiling" thread for example).
 
iwire said:
Mark if you interpretation is correct that would also mean we could not have bends less then 90 either.
Click to expand...

"shall not be more than" - means you can have less the amount... (The amount of the equivalent)
"the equivalent of " - simular in amount of
"Four" - 4
"quarter bends" - 90's

Not more than the equivilent of four 90's.... Example:

22.5, 22.5, 45 = 90
10, 20, 30, 30 = 90
45, 45 = 90
90 = 90
=360

Ya know I am not alone (although I may be here...) in this thinking - because we have discussed it a half dozen times, and I have never posted the topic. ;) :rolleyes: :grin:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top