Bidding Large Customs in a volatile supply market

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Aledrell said:
Thank you, this is the kinda of response I needed. I even include standard fixtures (25lbs or less, 25 pieces or less).
I’m in AZ, residential market down here is on fire.


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I'm curious, if you already knew the answer you wanted, and scoff at any others, then why did you make the post in the beginning?
 
James L said:
I'm curious, if you already knew the answer you wanted, and scoff at any others, then why did you make the post in the beginning?
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OP was specifically asking for others’ average pricing to compare against his own.


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James L said:
I'm curious, if you already knew the answer you wanted, and scoff at any others, then why did you make the post in the beginning?
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You sir are trolling my post. I’m trying to have an open discussion with my fellow ECs so we get our due and price fix against those who seek to keep their boots upon our necks.
Be a team player and be constructive, you won’t want to be the low bid guy option forever. You grow out of that real quick. The customers you’ll attract aren’t the good loyal customers you’ll want to build your business etc.


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brantmacga said:
OP was specifically asking for others’ average pricing to compare against his own.


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Are there. But he only wanted a particular answer that fit with his preconceived notions.

If there's only one answer you're willing to accept, is really retarded to ask the question in the first place
 
Aledrell said:
You sir are trolling my post. I’m trying to have an open discussion with my fellow ECs so we get our due and price fix against those who seek to keep their boots upon our necks.
Be a team player and be constructive, you won’t want to be the low bid guy option forever. You grow out of that real quick. The customers you’ll attract aren’t the good loyal customers you’ll want to build your business etc.


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I think you are trolling your own post. I simply gave you what nobody else in front of me was willing to give you, and you come back at me with a backhanded insult.

This reply of yours, another backhanded insult.

Like I said already, it's retarded to ask for opinions if there's only one answer you're willing to accept. Just go tell yourself in the mirror whatever you want to hear
 
James L said:
Are there. But he only wanted a particular answer that fit with his preconceived notions.

If there's only one answer you're willing to accept, is really retarded to ask the question in the first place
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I do see both sides of the argument. You and I were the only people that responded with an actual price; and I think responding with “you’re too low” isn’t the best response. It seems to vary wildly by area. But I am of the persuasion that a rising tide raises all boats. For what it’s worth, I’m hearing $5.50-$6/ft is the going rate in my area of South Georgia.

I understand OP’s frustration, because I feel the same sometimes when I ask a specific question and get 30 unrelated responses, but I’m as guilty as anyone of derailing a thread

But hey, it’s just a conversation, and we all want to chime in! At the end of the day, we’re all on the same team here.


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James L said:
Those quantities you listed mean nothing without knowing how many square feet you have.

Also, "custom" and "spec" don't really belong in the same context.

I do mid-size custom homes which have those kind of specs and quantity, and I'm usually nowhere near $10 or $12 per sf.

I recently wired one that was really a duplex but listed as single family + ADU - about 4500 sf with 400 amp service, 2 kitchens - all electric. It was a spec home with about 80 cans, 5 circuits in each kitchen, total 5 bedrooms and 5 bathrooms, with soffit mini cans outside, data in each living room and all bedrooms.
Total was $19,000

I did a 3800 sf custom with 4 bed, 5 bath, 9 kitchen circuits, 2 separate garages, 95 gimbal cans including exterior soffits, car charger, data at TVs, 12 ceiling speakers, bathroom floor heat and more.
Total was $24,000

I don't know if maybe you're using MC cable or conduit, but if you're using Romex $10/sf seems like a really good price.
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location means everything. Your prices in Massachusetts would be 40% or more too low
 
prices are low in Mo! I did a 3k sq ft house 70 recpts 10 dimmers 43 recessed, some expensive.
3250' 14-2 ( $280/k). 1k 14-3 (no Smokes) 1k 12-2. nothing outrageous . I spent $10k on materials. your prices seem low but MO labor might be lower than Massachusetts,which has high everything!
 
James L said:
You wouldn't be able to sub to me because you might never sell any work here 🙄

Maybe you're just too slow 😉
It's a really common phenom

Or maybe it's not really what would be considered spec grade. That picture you have looks like one I priced but didn't get. About 3800 sf and I was at $35k which is about $9.00/sf

I'm on one now that's kind of spec grade 5500 sf w/ 400a service and 100 cans. I priced it at $29,000 and the builder said he had $25k allowance. I told him to take a hike. He hired me.
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You read that wrong, he wants you to sub to him! That way, he can pocket the difference! :D
 
farmantenna said:
prices are low in Mo! I did a 3k sq ft house 70 recpts 10 dimmers 43 recessed, some expensive.
3250' 14-2 ( $280/k). 1k 14-3 (no Smokes) 1k 12-2. nothing outrageous . I spent $10k on materials. your prices seem low but MO labor might be lower than Massachusetts,which has high everything!
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You're right, prices are low here.

Every bid I give, I kid you not they tell me I'm 5-10% higher than any other price they get.

Too many guys here are willing to work for a better wage than a job.

Right now, my material runs about 40% of the total. I would imagine if I spent $10k on materials, the total price would be $24-26k

My prices are working out to be about $90-95/hr

Many guys here are 50/50 materials & labor, and $65-70/hr
 
I’m also 40% materials 40% labor 20% profit typically.

My post was simply to discuss current price per sq ft due to huge jumps in materials cost. I think that price jump hits us all equally. My supplier is so bogged down with quotes these days for EC who didn’t used to need quotes bc the pricing was consistent. That’s no longer the case. A year ago i would have said a basic home 2000 sq ft or less with 200A or less could be as low as $5/sq ft. Today I won’t touch anything less than $8/sq ft, 400A size homes around $12/sq ft and 600-800A homes around $15/sq ft.


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James L said:
Those quantities you listed mean nothing without knowing how many square feet you have.

Also, "custom" and "spec" don't really belong in the same context.

I do mid-size custom homes which have those kind of specs and quantity, and I'm usually nowhere near $10 or $12 per sf.

I recently wired one that was really a duplex but listed as single family + ADU - about 4500 sf with 400 amp service, 2 kitchens - all electric. It was a spec home with about 80 cans, 5 circuits in each kitchen, total 5 bedrooms and 5 bathrooms, with soffit mini cans outside, data in each living room and all bedrooms.
Total was $19,000

I did a 3800 sf custom with 4 bed, 5 bath, 9 kitchen circuits, 2 separate garages, 95 gimbal cans including exterior soffits, car charger, data at TVs, 12 ceiling speakers, bathroom floor heat and more.
Total was $24,000

I don't know if maybe you're using MC cable or conduit, but if you're using Romex $10/sf seems like a really good price.
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That's about 50-60 k around here

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Aledrell said:
I have some large custom homes coming up and I like to know how everyone is bidding these projects with supply costs up as high as 300% in some cases.
For a 400A service vaulted great room, 100+ cans, 20ft UC lighting, 8 kitchen appliance circuits, etc. I find myself at $12/sq ft. GC wants me more around $10/sq ft and I think that’s too low. Thanks for the input.
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I have little patience for a GC who beats me up about a square foot price. I don't price by the square foot, it's too generalistic. Give me a plan with devices and I will give you a price based on those devices. I have never claimed to be the cheapest in town, that's not my mission. I would bankrupt the company trying, run off the good help, and still lose at the end of the day.

Making fools happy is a fools errand.
 
Aledrell said:
I have some large custom homes coming up and I like to know how everyone is bidding these projects with supply costs up as high as 300% in some cases.
For a 400A service vaulted great room, 100+ cans, 20ft UC lighting, 8 kitchen appliance circuits, etc. I find myself at $12/sq ft. GC wants me more around $10/sq ft and I think that’s too low. Thanks for the input.
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I've in my 43rd year in the industry. 95% of that in estimating/mgmt and now ownership. I quit using square foot pricing decades ago. However, instead, I rely on hours per square foot pricing utilizing historical performance records to validate budget pricing for things. This is for when a very quick number is needed or the GC is looking for some good budget figures. The reason for this is that by isolating just the labor per square foot you have isolated an important part of the job that rarely changes. The square foot for a bare Class A office space usually starts at around 0.125 hours per square foot and up depending on LV systems included. BUT, the COST of that labor is constantly changing. I use my square foot labor figures for different categories of work and whatever the current rate or crew mix rate is to approximate the labor cost.
Now that the most important and traditionally riskiest part of the job is out of the way you can deal with the basic materials and quotables separately and a little more accurately address the increases and supply problems for a smaller percentage of the job (excluding the labor).
I know very few who use this method. Everyone wants to do $/SqFt and it's just not reasonably accurate in this climate.
 
StevenLeuck said:
I've in my 43rd year in the industry. 95% of that in estimating/mgmt and now ownership. I quit using square foot pricing decades ago. However, instead, I rely on hours per square foot pricing utilizing historical performance records to validate budget pricing for things. This is for when a very quick number is needed or the GC is looking for some good budget figures. The reason for this is that by isolating just the labor per square foot you have isolated an important part of the job that rarely changes. The square foot for a bare Class A office space usually starts at around 0.125 hours per square foot and up depending on LV systems included. BUT, the COST of that labor is constantly changing. I use my square foot labor figures for different categories of work and whatever the current rate or crew mix rate is to approximate the labor cost.
Now that the most important and traditionally riskiest part of the job is out of the way you can deal with the basic materials and quotables separately and a little more accurately address the increases and supply problems for a smaller percentage of the job (excluding the labor).
I know very few who use this method. Everyone wants to do $/SqFt and it's just not reasonably accurate in this climate.
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I understand and respect your point of view. Square foot pricing is dicey especially for commercial work.
In residential I think it can be done by square footage for 98% of new homes. Obviously higher end spec’d lighting ie gimbal trims, dimmers, smart controls, screwless plates, plug mold, floor boxes, tankless electric water heaters, crazy fixtures, etc would be in addition the pricing per square foot we are discussing.
Most standard wood framed 200A homes 3000 sq ft or less tend to have the same basic lighting/device density and 400A homes 3k-5k sq ft tend to have similar lighting/device density and there’s now an expectation of a 50A car charging outlet in the garage etc.
It’s by no means a perfect science but I think it can be done. I think I’m saying that my materials alone have caused my pricing to go up $3/sq ft when compared to a year ago.
My employees make $20-$30/hr doe.
@.125/sq ft on 4500 sq ft is 562.5 man hours. @ $40/hr = $22500 x 2 for material = $45k. Thats $10/sq ft which is where the GC wants me to be at. Perhaps I’m just getting greedy as I get older? lol Thx for your post.


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Lots of great info on here, I can't really contribute with an answer as Ive mostly been doing service and remodels. But I have been asked to price some custom homes and honestly Ive struggled to come up with something that doesn't risk me loosing money on one or make me absurdly high. Anyone care share how to price them? I have roughed in homes and generally know house 2500k sq ft with 30 cans can take me 2-3 days at least to rough in and day or two for trim depending on complexity etc. Dont mean to hi jack the OP post
 
electrofelon said:
If you are that fast, you should be doing extraordinarily well!
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There are people who are able to make a lot of money because they are really good at doing certain things. And they could do it cheap and still make a ton of money at it. My suspicion is most of them make their money by not having to spend a lot of their time on marketing and sales. A lot of small businessmen particularly contractors just don't get how much of their time is spent on that kind of thing and it is completely unpaid.
 
CustomElectricLLC said:
Lots of great info on here, I can't really contribute with an answer as Ive mostly been doing service and remodels. But I have been asked to price some custom homes and honestly Ive struggled to come up with something that doesn't risk me loosing money on one or make me absurdly high. Anyone care share how to price them? I have roughed in homes and generally know house 2500k sq ft with 30 cans can take me 2-3 days at least to rough in and day or two for trim depending on complexity etc. Dont mean to hi jack the OP post
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Wgen I was wiring new homes every day, I roughed in right at 100 square feet per hour on a house like you described. 2300 sf would be 3 days.

But I worked with guys who would spend 60 hours on the same house.
 
James L said:
Wgen I was wiring new homes every day, I roughed in right at 100 square feet per hour on a house like you described. 2300 sf would be 3 days.

But I worked with guys who would spend 60 hours on the same house.
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You guys relax lol, it was a guess statement. With an apprentice 3 looong days, possibly. 4-5 days on average. There’s my correction. I’m thinking to 2-3 years ago when I did new construction day in and out. Maybe little rusty right now


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