Bidding Large Customs in a volatile supply market

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James L said:
Those quantities you listed mean nothing without knowing how many square feet you have.

Also, "custom" and "spec" don't really belong in the same context.

I do mid-size custom homes which have those kind of specs and quantity, and I'm usually nowhere near $10 or $12 per sf.

I recently wired one that was really a duplex but listed as single family + ADU - about 4500 sf with 400 amp service, 2 kitchens - all electric. It was a spec home with about 80 cans, 5 circuits in each kitchen, total 5 bedrooms and 5 bathrooms, with soffit mini cans outside, data in each living room and all bedrooms.
Total was $19,000

I did a 3800 sf custom with 4 bed, 5 bath, 9 kitchen circuits, 2 separate garages, 95 gimbal cans including exterior soffits, car charger, data at TVs, 12 ceiling speakers, bathroom floor heat and more.
Total was $24,000

I don't know if maybe you're using MC cable or conduit, but if you're using Romex $10/sf seems like a really good price.
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Would you mind noting what were the labor hours for rough and finish of both of those houses?
 
James L said:
You wouldn't be able to sub to me because you might never sell any work here 🙄

Maybe you're just too slow 😉
It's a really common phenom

Or maybe it's not really what would be considered spec grade. That picture you have looks like one I priced but didn't get. About 3800 sf and I was at $35k which is about $9.00/sf

I'm on one now that's kind of spec grade 5500 sf w/ 400a service and 100 cans. I priced it at $29,000 and the builder said he had $25k allowance. I told him to take a hike. He hired me.
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I hope you have a signed contract with an escalation clause for wire. I used to work for several builders and they would never sign anything. Contracts, change orders, nothing. Luckily I never got stuck. I have not done residential new construction in a very long time. I am amazed at the prices I am seeing here and rightfully so.
 
Amps said:
Would you mind noting what were the labor hours for rough and finish of both of those houses?
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On the first one, the total price was $19,588

I had $7,350 in materials, which left $12,238 for labor. Total hours I would show at 144

There were 2 of us. Rough-in was 5 days, finish was 4 days.

The second one I don't have totals yet because it won't finish until next month. But rough-in was 3 of us for 4 days, then 2 of us for 2 days. I'm expecting 2 guys for 4 days on the finish. So a projection of about 192 hours
 
James L said:
On the first one, the total price was $19,588

I had $7,350 in materials, which left $12,238 for labor. Total hours I would show at 144

There were 2 of us. Rough-in was 5 days, finish was 4 days.

The second one I don't have totals yet because it won't finish until next month. But rough-in was 3 of us for 4 days, then 2 of us for 2 days. I'm expecting 2 guys for 4 days on the finish. So a projection of about 192 hours
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I’d say your doing very well with that pricing structure. $800-$1000/day for 2 man team is ideal and you’re crushing that. My labor and parts costs tend to run equal as far as billing the customer.
Meaning if I want $800-$1000/day out of a 2 man team they need to be installing close to that in billable material per day.


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Aledrell said:
I’d say your doing very well with that pricing structure. $800-$1000/day for 2 man team is ideal and you’re crushing that. My labor and parts costs tend to run equal as far as billing the customer.
Meaning if I want $800-$1000/day out of a 2 man team they need to be installing close to that in billable material per day.
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I appreciate that. I'm hoping to have another banner year in 2022

I'm still trying to instill into my guy 2 mottos I try to live by:

1) Why is it there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it twice?

2) Strive to be excellent, and success will find you
 
James L said:
On the first one, the total price was $19,588

I had $7,350 in materials, which left $12,238 for labor. Total hours I would show at 144

There were 2 of us. Rough-in was 5 days, finish was 4 days.

The second one I don't have totals yet because it won't finish until next month. But rough-in was 3 of us for 4 days, then 2 of us for 2 days. I'm expecting 2 guys for 4 days on the finish. So a projection of about 192 hours
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Man those prices seem kinda low in todays market and time. What part of the country you in?
 
CustomElectricLLC said:
Man those prices seem kinda low in todays market and time. What part of the country you in?
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Kansas City. New construction prices here are low compared to other places I think.

But cost of living is lower than other places, too.

And guys here are willing to work for next to nothing. Every single job I price, I get told how my price is so much higher than other guys
 
readydave8 said:
I think you could bid below cost and still be told this
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For sure that's possible. But this is year after year, across dozens of contractors, both new construction and remodeling. I'm consistently 10-15% higher than other bids they get.

I just completed a small house on slab, first house for a new contractor. When I first talked to him, he was needing to find a new electrician because his other contractor was going under. He said he had 2 other houses to wire, too. I gave him the bid and he told me it was quite a bit higher than he was expecting. Then he mentioned at least a half dozen more times how high my price was. I never heard any more about those other new houses.

But I did look at a house his other contractor roughed in, he needed the finish done. I gave him a price of $14,000 and he almost fainted. I know who he hired for that one, and they priced it at $11,000

I'm always looking to push my prices up.
As long as they keep saying yes, I keep going higher. But it's not easy here.
 
James L said:
For sure that's possible. But this is year after year, across dozens of contractors, both new construction and remodeling. I'm consistently 10-15% higher than other bids they get.

I just completed a small house on slab, first house for a new contractor. When I first talked to him, he was needing to find a new electrician because his other contractor was going under. He said he had 2 other houses to wire, too. I gave him the bid and he told me it was quite a bit higher than he was expecting. Then he mentioned at least a half dozen more times how high my price was. I never heard any more about those other new houses.

But I did look at a house his other contractor roughed in, he needed the finish done. I gave him a price of $14,000 and he almost fainted. I know who he hired for that one, and they priced it at $11,000

I'm always looking to push my prices up.
As long as they keep saying yes, I keep going higher. But it's not easy here.
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Its good you got to see the house that was roughed by the other contractor. Materials are pretty much the same so labor and markup may be the difference. Better that you are higher than lower. I once gave a guy a price for his new construction home. I was told my estimate was way too high and he got another guy who roughed the house and then went out of business. Wonder why? The owner called me back to finish it and he wound up paying me more since I had to trace out circuits, fix screw ups, etc.
 
readydave8 said:
"No I don't want to be in previous electrician's price range because I don't want to go bankrupt like him"
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You might be surprised. People in niche markets are often able to do stuff a lot more cost effectively than you might think.

We are pretty cost effective for the most part, but now and then we get underbid on certain projects by other companies. They can do certain things more cost effectively than we can. Get them outside their comfort zone, and they can be pretty pricey, but in the sweet spot where they are really good, they are hard to beat.
 
Amps said:
Its good you got to see the house that was roughed by the other contractor. Materials are pretty much the same so labor and markup may be the difference.
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There really is no Mark of here. People are willing to work for just wages. And even business owners who have 10-12 guys working for them, they're only charging $15 per hour more than they're paying out

Amps said:
Better that you are higher than lower.
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I would rather get told no on a high bid then to get told yes on a low bid

Amps said:
I once gave a guy a price for his new construction home. I was told my estimate was way too high and he got another guy who roughed the house and then went out of business. Wonder why? The owner called me back to finish it and he wound up paying me more since I had to trace out circuits, fix screw ups, etc.
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That one I looked at I gave the guy a high price, it was going to include fixing all kinds of dumb stuff. There was no smoke detector outside the master bedroom oh, because the homeowner said he didn't want one there. They had a loft, and on the front wall of the house was about 16 ft of wall space and about 20 ft of railing overlooking a foyer. No receptacles anywhere, because the homeowner didn't want any there. Exercise in a finished basement with about 26 ft of wall space and no receptacles because the homeowner didn't want any there. There was dumb stuff like that all over the place.

The only reason I even considered it was because I thought I would be doing his other new homes. It was an absolute train wreck that I'm glad I did not get
 
James L said:
There really is no Mark of here. People are willing to work for just wages. And even business owners who have 10-12 guys working for them, they're only charging $15 per hour more than they're paying out


I would rather get told no on a high bid then to get told yes on a low bid


That one I looked at I gave the guy a high price, it was going to include fixing all kinds of dumb stuff. There was no smoke detector outside the master bedroom oh, because the homeowner said he didn't want one there. They had a loft, and on the front wall of the house was about 16 ft of wall space and about 20 ft of railing overlooking a foyer. No receptacles anywhere, because the homeowner didn't want any there. Exercise in a finished basement with about 26 ft of wall space and no receptacles because the homeowner didn't want any there. There was dumb stuff like that all over the place.

The only reason I even considered it was because I thought I would be doing his other new homes. It was an absolute train wreck that I'm glad I did not get
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Man its like your working in another country thats going through a 2008 crash, I recall back 10 years ago similar stuff was going on for work, folks working for dirt cheap. That sounds like a tough market and environment to compete in.
 
CustomElectricLLC said:
Man its like your working in another country thats going through a 2008 crash, I recall back 10 years ago similar stuff was going on for work, folks working for dirt cheap. That sounds like a tough market and environment to compete in.
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Yup. I just don't try to compete on price.

Most guys on W2 here are making $22-26 per hour. With some kind of cheap benefits, their boss is probably laying out $40-45

It would not surprise me if their pricing structure has them charging $60-65 per hour

Mine usually comes in about $85-90
 
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