blown in insulation

[Joethemechanic]

I'm still not seeing where all this increased demand is going to come from. Unless you are switching to electric heat and an electric car.

I grew up in a house with a 60 amp service, Electric range, electric dryer, two refrigerators, incandescent lighting, tube type television, a window AC in both bedrooms..

We never blew a 60 amp main fuse.

My grandmother lived next to us with all the same kind of stuff on a 100 amp service. And that also fed a 50 amp circuit out to my grandfathers shop where he ran machine tools, and an air compressor

 

[kwired]

But the current will still be a function of voltage across load resistance, won't it?.

Chances are you aren't connecting that to "old romex wiring" either though.

 

[Frank DuVal]

Don't walk but run away from old wiring. It is unsafe, and the insurance companies will not insure in California.

Weird, not my house to insure so what do I care? I still work on K&T in houses!

 

[Frank DuVal]

Old wiring "Romex" wiring can't handle it.

Old Romex can handle exactly what is was originally installed to do. What does upgrading the main to 200 amps have to do with a 15 amp branch circuit? I've done many a K&T house upgrade to 200 amp main, as that is the defacto meter given to us by the power company for 40 years.

 

[Frank DuVal]

Wholesale houses in California only stock 200-amp panels now, it takes a special order to get 100-amp panels. Is that the same in other states ?

Why would someone only pay to upgrade to 100 amp service when 200 amp service is only a few dollars more? I have NEVER installed a 100 amp service! And 150 amp went out 40 years ago around here. We had a very forward thinking electric company that pushed all electric homes, probably due to their nuclear power plants (still operating), and stocked 200 amp meter bases in the 70s.

 

[Fred B]

Old Romex can handle exactly what is was originally installed to do. What does upgrading the main to 200 amps have to do with a 15 amp branch circuit? I've done many a K&T house upgrade to 200 amp main, as that is the defacto meter given to us by the power company for 40 years.

Correct, if the K&T is intact, unaltered then nothing wrong with it. But most K&T I've come across has been altered to such an extent that it no longer meets code to be tied back into the a new panel. If customer would be refusing to upgrade these portions I wouldn't get involved with the project. AFA Old Romex most times I've seen it had been compromised, will have brittle insulation at fixtures or receptacles. Also they have undersized or no EGC (does not prohibit reconnection). But will see many that someone had gone and put in grounded receptacles and no GFCI (required for ungrounded lines) or ground connection to the undersized EGC.

 

[letgomywago]

Correct, if the K&T is intact, unaltered then nothing wrong with it. But most K&T I've come across has been altered to such an extent that it no longer meets code to be tied back into the a new panel. If customer would be refusing to upgrade these portions I wouldn't get involved with the project. AFA Old Romex most times I've seen it had been compromised, will have brittle insulation at fixtures or receptacles. Also they have undersized or no EGC (does not prohibit reconnection). But will see many that someone had gone and put in grounded receptacles and no GFCI (required for ungrounded lines) or ground connection to the undersized EGC.

Both those last issues are rectified if using a GFCI breaker durring a service change and I have done this. You end up with 3 expensive breakers and all is well.

 

[kwired]

Wholesale houses in California only stock 200-amp panels now, it takes a special order to get 100-amp panels. Is that the same in other states ?

Why would someone only pay to upgrade to 100 amp service when 200 amp service is only a few dollars more? I have NEVER installed a 100 amp service! And 150 amp went out 40 years ago around here. We had a very forward thinking electric company that pushed all electric homes, probably due to their nuclear power plants (still operating), and stocked 200 amp meter bases in the 70s.

Though it may be common to run 200 amp service to a dwelling in a lot of places there are other places where a 100 amp panel gets used. Even in dwellings there might be subpanels that are 100 amps.

Non dwelling limited load applications can be very limited load wise or can be primarily a single load but with a high VA rating.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I'm still not seeing where all this increased demand is going to come from. Unless you are switching to electric heat and an electric car.

I grew up in a house with a 60 amp service, Electric range, electric dryer, two refrigerators, incandescent lighting, tube type television, a window AC in both bedrooms..

We never blew a 60 amp main fuse.

My grandmother lived next to us with all the same kind of stuff on a 100 amp service. And that also fed a 50 amp circuit out to my grandfathers shop where he ran machine tools, and an air compressor

Both of which are being pushed by regulations...in some areas, you are not permitted to install natural gas to a new dwelling.

 

[kwired]

Both of which are being pushed by regulations...in some areas, you are not permitted to install natural gas to a new dwelling.

Propane? Oil burners?

Time to go back to wood stoves, coal or corn cobs?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Propane? Oil burners?

Time to go back to wood stoves, coal or corn cobs?

Would have to look at the rules in those states, but they are banning natural gas because of the carbon emmissions, I would expect they would also ban those other fossil fuels.

 

[kwired]

Would have to look at the rules in those states, but they are banning natural gas because of the carbon emmissions, I would expect they would also ban those other fossil fuels.

What if you are Amish?

Around here they are using solar panels, never been inside to know what they all power with them though. Guessing mostly lights. They are not against using gas powered generators to supply other items but probably not going to find them powering a high efficiency heat pump with one either.

 

[jmellc]

sure it can, but some of it won't be 14 or even 12 AWG

and if you need more thab 4 AWG you switch to SE cable or some other method.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen #4 Romex. I’ve seen a fair amount of #6.

 

[Joethemechanic]

coal

No going back here, I never left coal

BTW there are still some guys bootlegging coal around here. Not to mention old mining sites where lots is laying around

 

[Joethemechanic]

Back in the day they got coal this way too

 

[norcal]

The demand for increased electricity continues. It will be an all-electric world for everyone, not just California. Do you have the electrical capacity to meet your future needs ?

And yet the supply is not being increased. Perhaps by design.

 

[Joethemechanic]

And yet the supply is not being increased. Perhaps by design.

Elon Musk has the whole world conned into believing this 3.9 megawatt-hour thing is the cure all

 

[retirede]

Elon Musk has the whole world conned into believing this 3.9 megawatt-hour thing is the cure all

To call that hyperbole would be an understatement.

 

[mtnelect]

Old Romex can handle exactly what is was originally installed to do. What does upgrading the main to 200 amps have to do with a 15 amp branch circuit? I've done many a K&T house upgrade to 200 amp main, as that is the defacto meter given to us by the power company for 40 years.

Why would you want to upgrade to a 100-amp service anyway ... because the customer(s) thought it took-up too much space and looked ugly.

I tried to convince them of the future requirements to no avail.

 

[hornetd]

Probably a good part of the reasons for the global 15-, 20-, and 30-amp over-current limitations for 14-, 12-, and 10-gauge copper wires, respectively, which have higher ampacities in the tables.

When I was reading about some code history that author opined that it was because the code people saw it as a material for wiring homes, decided that overloading was inevitable with uneducated users, and wanted to put a wide margin between ampacity and actual permitted Over Current Protective Device (OCPD) usage. But he to is just one opinion as far as I know.

Tom Horne