Bonding for Alcohol Fumes!?!? Explosion proof Outlet? Hmmm, where to begin?

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davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
Got a call I was not prepared for! Guy says he will be transferring 180+ proof alcohol from barrel to barrel with a 120V pump. Wants to have everything bonded to prevent any static electricity from causing a Boom!

So...first of all this place is setting up shop in a very basic rental-garage. No idea how the building is classified as far as hazardous fumes go.... I've never dealt with "alcohol fumes" other than on my own breath after a rough day! :)

Not sure where to even begin...doesn't he need to confirm this building is classified to do what he wants to do? For instance, there is not even an exhaust fan, and none of the existing wiring is inside explosion proof conduits etc...

ugh...

His idea was to simply run a ground wire from the panel to the "pouring location" and provide a means (Ground bar of sorts) for all of his equipment to bond to a common ground via "Cables with Alligator Clamps".

Sounded like a great idea to me at first but...I'm thinking it's a lot more complicated than that!?
 
roger

roger

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Location
Fl
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It might have been overkill but I wired a room where grain alcohol was stored and handled once and it was a hazardous area. I don't remember what the class or division was but we used explosion proof wiring methods and fixtures.

Roger
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
At minimum at least some portion of the area will be classified Class I Div 2, and probably Class I Div 1 as explosive vapors will be present during normal operations. Perhaps he might consider using a diaphragm pump to do the transfer. They are driven pneumatically so he could put the compressor and tank well away from the work area and pipe in the air. Now he just needs to consider the 1001 other issues for this kind of operation. Unless there are engineered drawings for this lashup, I might be inclined to politely turn down his business. You don't want your fingerprints on this if/when something goes wrong.
 
davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
Yeah...this might be one to stay away from.

I don't like to turn down work just because it's something I'm unfamiliar with...I almost did that when I was asked to wire my very 1st solar pv system and that turned out to be a huge part of my income for many years. But... I don't see this situation as having quite the same impact! :happyno:
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
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E
davedottcom said:
Yeah...this might be one to stay away from.

I don't like to turn down work just because it's something I'm unfamiliar with...I almost did that when I was asked to wire my very 1st solar pv system and that turned out to be a huge part of my income for many years. But... I don't see this situation as having quite the same impact! :happyno:
Click to expand...

flammable dispensing. class 1 div 2 possibly, but class 1 div 1 will get it.

everything to that level. the pneumatic pump is a +1, if it's listed for
alcohol.

engineered, signed, stamped drawings.

an added bonus is that the stuff burns without visible flame. surprise!

we spilled alcohol from a speedway bike on the ground at rabbit dry lake,
and the fumes found a source of ignition and migrated back to the bike.
were not visible.

when the sage bush around the bike started charring, it was a clue...
 
R

rudiseldb

Member
Location
Oregon City
That is article 501 for sure...just like a gas station. Either dam I can't spell, intrescfally safe wiring or seal offs every where. Bonding in an eqoupotintal bonding plane is required


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Doesnt sound like a licensed distillery.. if not, I'd not touch it with a 10' pole.

Bonding doesnt prevent static electricity discharge anyway. If you have on the wrong shoes and scuff them on the floor, then touch something metal, there's a spark regardless of bonding.

Ethanol has a visible flame; methanol doesnt.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
davedottcom said:
His idea was to simply run a ground wire from the panel to the "pouring location" and provide a means (Ground bar of sorts) for all of his equipment to bond to a common ground via "Cables with Alligator Clamps".
Click to expand...

one can also google "siphoning gas with a shop vac" for some
creative ways to transfer flammable liquid.

a couple months ago, i did a lighting certification on a vodka
distillery in los angeles. all class 1 div 1.

no dimmers there. explosion proof led light fixtures.
 
gadfly56

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Fulthrotl said:
one can also google "siphoning gas with a shop vac" for some
creative ways to transfer flammable liquid.

a couple months ago, i did a lighting certification on a vodka
distillery in los angeles. all class 1 div 1.

no dimmers there. explosion proof led light fixtures.
Click to expand...

I can't even begin to imagine how expensive those are.
 
J

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Fulthrotl said:
no kidding? i didn't know that. duh.

flaming rum drinks. see flame.
everclear on fire. see flame.
speedway bike roast. don't see flame.

duh. there are times i'm just stupid.
Click to expand...

Yeah some racecars as well. You can only tell someone is on fire by the distortions in your vision...or someone flailing wildly for no apparent reason.
 
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