Bonding Gas piping

[pkelectrical]

Ok, so I failed inspection and the inspector wrote " Bond house side of gas meter-outside to grounding electrode system"

I have #6 GEC that goes from the panel, outside through the Intersystem grounding bridge to two grounding electrodes in the ground 6 feet apart (not concrete-encased).
I am trying to find out if there is a way for me to connect #6 awg from the gas pipe to the grounding electrode via clamp, or do I need to replace the whole #6 GEC and run a continuous length as per 250.64C through the intersystem grounding bridge, 2 electrodes and loop the gas pipe also.

Looking at 250.68C 2014 NEC, it does not say I can use ground rod 250.52A(5).
Grounding electrode conductors and bonding jumpers shall be permitted to be connected at the following locations and used to extend the connections to an electrode(s):
1. water piping 5 feet...
2. metal structural frame of a building...
3. A concrete-encased electrode 250.52A3

I connected the #6 from gas pipe to intersystem bonding bridge, but as I was reading this thread, the IBB is not rated for GEC connection.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=166062

 

[infinity]

Let's start with the type of gas piping, is it CSST? Black gas pipe does not require this type of bonding according to the NEC and neither does CSST for that matter. The latter does require bonding usually according to it's manufacturer's instructions.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What size service is it? A 200 amp service will need a #4 to bond the gas pipe so connecting to the #6 will not be compliant

 

[infinity]

What size service is it? A 200 amp service will need a #4 to bond the gas pipe so connecting to the #6 will not be compliant

Where is the NEC is this required, are you saying that if you do bond the pipe it has to comply with Article 250? CSST usually requires a #6 from the pipe manufacturer.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Not all pipe manufacturers require #6. I believe Omegaflex used to require the use of T. 250.66-- I assume it still does but it has been awhile since I have checked.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Of course the black "Counter strike" made by omegaflex does not require any bondng

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is from Omegaflex

When additional bonding of the CounterStrike? or TracPipe PS-II? system is required by local codes, a bonding clamp must be attached to either the brass AutoFlare? fitting adapter (See Figure: 4-25), or to a black pipe component (pipe or fitting) within the gas piping system. The corrugated stainless steel portion of the gas piping system SHALL NOT be used as the bonding attachment
170985_OmegaFlex_Txt 12/16/13 12:46 PM Page 5455 point. The bonding should be in accordance with the National Electrical Code
NFPA 70. Bonding electrode conductor sizing shall be in accordance with NFPA 70 Article 250.66 and Table: 250-66.

 

[pkelectrical]

Let's start with the type of gas piping, is it CSST? Black gas pipe does not require this type of bonding according to the NEC and neither does CSST for that matter. The latter does require bonding usually according to it's manufacturer's instructions.

its black piping through out the house but the plumber did use the CSST to connect to the furnace and water heater.

Dennis Alwon

What size service is it? A 200 amp service will need a #4 to bond the gas pipe so connecting to the #6 will not be compliant​

Its 200 A service

 

[pkelectrical]

TracPipe? CounterStrike?

The Only Gas Piping That Withstands the Forces of Nature

Used in natural gas and propane piping installations, TracPipe? CounterStrike? has been shown to be up to 400 times more resistant to the damaging effects of electrical energy than yellow corrugated stainless steel tubing.
The safest choice for both the installer and the customer, the benefits of TracPipe? CounterStrike? can also save time and money. There are no additional bonding requirements for TracPipe? CounterStrike? imposed by the manufacturer's installation instructions. It lays straighter and pulls easier, dramatically decreasing installation times. And unlike competitive brands, TracPipe? Counterstrike? is non-annealed, making it more crush-resistant, safer to install and easier to cut.

http://www.omegaflexcorp.com/Products/TracPipe_CounterStrike/

But they used the yellow one so I still need to bond it with #4 outside where the black pipe comes out to the gas meter

The CounterStrike? gas piping system
shall be bonded in accordance with these
instructions and the National Fuel Gas Code,
NFPA 54/ANSI Z223. In the event of a conflict
between these instructions and local codes,
the local codes shall control. The piping system
is not to be used as a grounding conductor
or electrode for an electrical system.

There are no additional bonding requirements
for CounterStrike? and underground
TracPipe PS-II imposed by the
manufacturer?s installation instructions.
CounterStrike? is to be bonded in accordance
with the National Electrical Code
NFPA 70 Article 250.104(B) in the same
manner as the minimum requirements for
rigid metal piping. Installers must always
adhere to any local requirements that may
be stricter than these instructions. In
these cases see Section 4.10A.

http://www.tracpipe.com/Customer-Content/WWW/CMS/files/FlexGasPipe_DesignGuide_Jan_2014-1.pdf

 

[infinity]

TracPipe? CounterStrike?

The Only Gas Piping That Withstands the Forces of Nature

Used in natural gas and propane piping installations, TracPipe? CounterStrike? has been shown to be up to 400 times more resistant to the damaging effects of electrical energy than yellow corrugated stainless steel tubing.
The safest choice for both the installer and the customer, the benefits of TracPipe? CounterStrike? can also save time and money. There are no additional bonding requirements for TracPipe? CounterStrike? imposed by the manufacturer's installation instructions. It lays straighter and pulls easier, dramatically decreasing installation times. And unlike competitive brands, TracPipe? Counterstrike? is non-annealed, making it more crush-resistant, safer to install and easier to cut.

http://www.omegaflexcorp.com/Products/TracPipe_CounterStrike/

But they used the yellow one so I still need to bond it with #4 outside where the black pipe comes out to the gas meter



http://www.tracpipe.com/Customer-Content/WWW/CMS/files/FlexGasPipe_DesignGuide_Jan_2014-1.pdf

CSST bonding is outside of the purview of the NEC, in fact the NEC wants nothing to do with making it a requirment. Is it a local code that requires the electrician to install the bonding jumper?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

When I said black pipe I meant CSST piping that is black-- that is the counter strike which does not require additional bonding but then if local codes require it to be bonding the manufacturer then states to use T. 250.66.

I have seen his counter strike a few times but I always go ahead and bond it anyway.

 

[pkelectrical]

CSST bonding is outside of the purview of the NEC, in fact the NEC wants nothing to do with making it a requirment. Is it a local code that requires the electrician to install the bonding jumper?

Yeah. When I was leaving the house I met with the plumbing inspector and he said he wants the pipe bonded.
Not all inspectors pick on it, actually very rarely they do.

When additional bonding of theCounterStrike? or TracPipe PS-II? system
is required by local codes, a bonding
clamp must be attached to either the
brass AutoFlare? fitting adapter (See
Figure: 4-25), or to a black pipe component
(pipe or fitting) within the gas piping
system. The corrugated stainless steel
portion of the gas piping system SHALL
NOT be used as the bonding attachment
170985_OmegaFlex_Txt 12/16/13 12:46 PM Page 5455
point. The bonding should be in accordance
with the National Electrical Code
NFPA 70. Bonding electrode conductor
sizing shall be in accordance with NFPA
70 Article 250.66 and Table: 250-66.
If possible, avoid running the bonding
conductor a long distance through the
building. The connection should be as
short as possible. Gas meter should be
near the electrical service if possible. If
not, the bond can be connected at a point
on the piping system near the electrical
service.

I see some plumbers start to use different rigid pipe for the gas pipe, it's not black, is more silver color, not sure what material is it made out of.

 

[cowboy1966]

Your ground for the gas should come from the nearest point where the gas pipe enters the house to the ground bar in the main panel. I deal with this every day installing Generac generators.

 

[cowboy1966]

#6 in always big enough for a bonding jumper

 

[cowboy1966]

Look, #6 is always big enough for a bonding jumper. All you are doing is clearing the fault

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Look, #6 is always big enough for a bonding jumper. All you are doing is clearing the fault

We are talking lightning strikes not necessarily faults. If faults were the case then 250.104 (B) would be pertinent since that is for the grounding electrode conductor.

The fact is I am not sure we even know that the #6 would work in a lightning strike

 

[cowboy1966]

You should watch some of Mike Holts videos on grounding verses bonding and fundamentals of electricity. Bonding is to clear a fault. Lightning protection is different bro

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You should watch some of Mike Holts videos on grounding verses bonding and fundamentals of electricity. Bonding is to clear a fault. Lightning protection is different bro

Yes I know the difference. However the reason that CSST was being required to be bonded was because of the fires that were started due to lightning strikes on the CSST-- bro..

 

[cowboy1966]

Perhaps they should install some lightening protection then, just saying. I mean if they have a problem with lightening then grounding and bonding won't help.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Perhaps they should install some lightening protection then, just saying. I mean if they have a problem with lightening then grounding and bonding won't help.

The bonding requirements for CSST came out a some class action lawsuit settlements, one of the recommended solutions was a complete NFPA 780 compliant lightning protection system, however the bonding that is require by NFPA 54, the Fuel Gas Code, and in the CSST instructions was also among the recommended solutions. One of the reasons the CSST bonding is not in the NEC is because CMP 5 considers it lightning protection and outside the scope of the NEC.