Bonding/Grounding copper water lines

[ActionDave]

Are you sure about that?

That would be odd, the primary fuse is generally sized to protect the grid not the transformer.

In the link below the secondary short kept going for 30 to 45 minutes until the transformer internal shorted and opened the primary cutout.

http://www.electrical-contractor.ne...p/topics/119389/4_RMC_vs_Utility_Current.html

The fuse on the blade switch for SFD or small commercial service will. I've been witness to it a couple times.

Your pics remind me of an incident my boss was involved in- 480V phase to phase fault that reset the recloser at the sub station three times and shot fire out of the safety switch every time.

 

[iwire]

The fuse on the blade switch for SFD or small commercial service will. I've been witness to it a couple times.

Are you sure the transformer was good?

One of our moderators who used to participate here was a power company engineer and a CMP member for article 240. At the utility he worked for that would not be the case and not in my area either.

The fuses in those cut outs would be type T high surge fuses which can hold well over their rating for a long time.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...edium_voltage/eei-nema_type_k_tandtypehn.html

 

[rcmoon]

Would anyone's opinion change regarding my situation if none of the copper water lines were installed under the slab and all the copper water lines were above ground installed in walls and attic space?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Would anyone's opinion change regarding my situation if none of the copper water lines were installed under the slab and all the copper water lines were above ground installed in walls and attic space?

Great question. My answer: No. To possibly make an argument that I might say yes to, you'd have to remove any possibility for the regular use of the plumbing resulting in through human body current from the metal water lines to other grounded surfaces (the slab itself, any exposed conductive surfaces still connected to the Equipment Grounding Conductor like appliances, etc.)

You see, if you float the metal water lines from connection to earth / electrical ground, then ANY accidental contact of an energized conductor to the those water lines results in absolutely no indication that there is a problem, AND, as long as energized, the water lines lie there as a hazard waiting to happen. Any hidden or exposed conductive surfaces that are in contact with the water lines will also be involved.

Again, your efforts are creating the very situation you are trying to avoid.

 

[user 100]

Great question. My answer: No. To possibly make an argument that I might say yes to, you'd have to remove any possibility for the regular use of the plumbing resulting in through human body current from the metal water lines to other grounded surfaces (the slab itself, any exposed conductive surfaces still connected to the Equipment Grounding Conductor like appliances, etc.)

You see, if you float the metal water lines from connection to earth / electrical ground, then ANY accidental contact of an energized conductor to the those water lines results in absolutely no indication that there is a problem, AND, as long as energized, the water lines lie there as a hazard waiting to happen. Any hidden or exposed conductive surfaces that are in contact with the water lines will also be involved.

Again, your efforts are creating the very situation you are trying to avoid.

:thumbsup:. If someone touches/ comes into contact with those live pipes/fixtures, and if the person is touching anything that is any sort of path back to the source, however weak, they can still be shocked/electrocuted. Bonding the pipes to begin with would prevent that- pipes get energized, trips the breaker.

Still wishing the op would strongly reconsider.

 

[ActionDave]

Are you sure the transformer was good?

One of our moderators who used to participate here was a power company engineer and a CMP member for article 240. At the utility he worked for that would not be the case and not in my area either...

The last time I saw it happen was switching a service from overhead to an underground and the ring for the meter was left inside the meter socket. The lineman closed the switch, fire shot from the meter socket, and the fuse blew. That was about ten years ago. I also remember troubleshooting a fifty horse irrigation pump and a fault inside it took out one of the POCO fuses.

 

[big john]

I've also seen hard secondary faults drop primary jacks, but it definitely takes a minute.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I have watched multiple service conduits and their conductors vaporize without opening any OCPD. In one case about 30' of 4" rigid with four 500 kcmils disappeared before the utility got there to open the primary feed to the transformer.

 

[davet]

Poco Problem

Poco Problem

Received a call from resturant stating they are getting electrical shocks from sink, stove, fridge, anything metal. Tested for voltage-nothing. Checked panel ,grounding,bonding, all OK. Call me if it happens again. Next day, same call. Checked all as before. got 120v. to ground on appliances. Not good. Since all previous checks turned out ok, went outside to look at incoming 1phase 240v.power. Triplex to building wires were split bolt connected and split bolts were Bare. It was raining at this time. 1st.call ( rain stopped when I got their ) - no rain. 2 call rain. My conclision: when it rained, water made a connection from hot to nuetral,not enough to trip braeker or blow fusses,just enough to create shock hazard. Had hard time trying to convince power company of this. Finally told them to come out and proper terminate connections. Upon them fixing this, no more shocks. Strange but True.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Triplex to building wires were split bolt connected and split bolts were Bare.

That sounds real familiar. I work in an old Metro that has 100+ year old overhead electric utility distribution. Any one electrical service will be connected back to its supply transformer with a variety of splices, all power company made, and there will, on average, be four to seven of them PER CONDUCTOR! All of the splices are completely exposed to Minnesota weather.

In my area, the line side terminations of the service conductors to the electric meter socket are the first splices NOT made by the power company. As a result, if I can measure voltage swings between L1 and N, and L2 and N on those line side termination's conductors, then all I have to do is get the PoCo person that answers the phone to HEAR and UNDERSTAND that specific fact. (Sometimes the person that answers the phone doesn't have the technical skill to understand the import of my report, so I make sure I know what they write into their computer and agree with the way they wrote it.) Eventually, a responsible individual will read it and understand that ONLY power company splices exist between the meter line side terminations and the transformer, and they will dispatch a lineman post haste.