Branch Panel Boards

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Fortunately I work for people who expect nothing less than the work depicted in the photo. A skilled electrician can do a neat job almost as fast as a slob can do a sloppy job. In my world if your panels looked like a photo taken from a home inspectors forum you would get fired. You get what you pay for. :happyyes:
Hear hear! With romex in resi panels, I usually complete panels faster and neater than most folks. Something about competitions in apartments honed those skills. I have to admit, though, commercial panels with EMT/THHN still give me a harder time, nice work.

What is the metal between the two panels where the feed through conductors are?
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
If you've ever work facilities maintenance you learn very quickly that you use existing conduits when you can, you use existing circuits to pull with, you sometimes find a circuit simply by tugging on it, you have to move circuits around in panels for various reasons or you simply need to know which conduit something is coming out of.

When you use stranded wire, the only way to get it to look like those pics is to use tie wraps. If you pull solid wire you can still make it look like that and and you don't have to bundle the wires all together. I've also know that a lot of guys that bundle their wire like that, pick on the west coast guys for using only one two inch KO to bring in all of their home runs in resi panels.
John, sorry to impose on you by leaving the tie wraps on. I figure the next guy is just as capable o clipping them off as I am. :)
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
What is the metal between the two panels where the feed through conductors are?
An stainless steel auxiliary gutter made by the panel manufacturer. The whole setup was stainless steel, NEMA 12 for use in a commercial kitchen with possible water spray.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
If you've ever work facilities maintenance you learn very quickly that you use existing conduits when you can, you use existing circuits to pull with, you sometimes find a circuit simply by tugging on it, you have to move circuits around in panels for various reasons or you simply need to know which conduit something is coming out of.

When you use stranded wire, the only way to get it to look like those pics is to use tie wraps. If you pull solid wire you can still make it look like that and and you don't have to bundle the wires all together. I've also know that a lot of guys that bundle their wire like that, pick on the west coast guys for using only one two inch KO to bring in all of their home runs in resi panels.
Thanks Cowboy. Why can't stranded wire look like that without using ty wraps. The flexibility? Solid stays the way it is formed/shaped? Thanks.
 

ActionDave

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min without traffic from wing
Occupation
wire pulling grunt
If I could be king I would issue a decree, "Cease using cable ties in panels!"

Horsegoer- The difference between solid and stranded is a matter of degree. Both can be shaped. The difference is solid can be shaped in hard, ridged, unyielding angles like a East European prison guard. When working with stranded shape can still be defined but it flows and turns gently, much like the curves one finds pleasing when casting a gaze on an eye catching gal.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
This is not something that always happens here, but a couple of inspection departments in my area would not accept this installation when the bundling is longer than 2 feet and violates the number of current carrying conductors. I have gotten in the habit of making a panel look neat (though nto as neat as depicted here) without tie wraps in the final product.

I reference to getting fired for a panel looking neat like that. The poster can state all he wants that in his opinion, a panel that is messy takes less time, I call him out. I would match the skills and speed of someone who produces the pictured panel against a "speed demon" any day! Not on one panel, but on say 20 in a row. Starting from pulled wire, marked on the ends.
 

masterinbama

Senior Member
As for numbering your wires it's a courtesy to the next guy that works in that panel. He won't have to count breakers to find what he's looking for. As a side note we have a local engineer that requires us to number the neutrals as to what circuit or circuits they serve.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
If I could be king I would issue a decree, "Cease using cable ties in panels!"

Horsegoer- The difference between solid and stranded is a matter of degree. Both can be shaped. The difference is solid can be shaped in hard, ridged, unyielding angles like a East European prison guard. When working with stranded shape can still be defined but it flows and turns gently, much like the curves one finds pleasing when casting a gaze on an eye catching gal.
Long live the king!:)

I'd rather take my side cutters and clip the tie-wraps than untwist short pieces of wire some use to tie the conductors together!:thumbsup:
No tie wraps in panels, the king has spoken!:happyyes:
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Engineering
How many of you here remember using serving twine? Now that is art!
I remember it!
Tied a few cables down with it but mostly watched AT&T and Verizon guys use it when they were laceing their cables.
Always looked good!
 

tyha

Senior Member
Location
central nc
To add to the previous post. if it states or has specific details in the slec book about how panels should be made up. we had one last year at Cisco systems. we have 1 or 2 men that do nothing but go from panel to panel " making them pretty" everything is there. All the wire s pulled, labeld. but this cost is picked up in the estimate and accounted for.
I didnt mean to offend anyone and i just noticed that this is for a larger project or larger company strictly due to the bushings on the conduits that do not contain wires of #4 or larger. Thats usually a definning characteristic of a bigger operation that anticipates the time it takes to make those panels look so well. I think I may be biased against them for one other reason besides they cost me money is because when I was that journeymen in the field years ago with the big outfit I could never get them to be that nice. almost close but not really. Awesome
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I didnt mean to offend anyone and i just noticed that this is for a larger project or larger company strictly due to the bushings on the conduits that do not contain wires of #4 or larger. Thats usually a definning characteristic of a bigger operation that anticipates the time it takes to make those panels look so well. I think I may be biased against them for one other reason besides they cost me money is because when I was that journeymen in the field years ago with the big outfit I could never get them to be that nice. almost close but not really. Awesome
Look closely and you'll see that the conduit is RMC so bushings are required.

This is not something that always happens here, but a couple of inspection departments in my area would not accept this installation when the bundling is longer than 2 feet and violates the number of current carrying conductors. I have gotten in the habit of making a panel look neat (though nto as neat as depicted here) without tie wraps in the final product.
Those guys need to read 310.15(A)(2)Exception.
 
Last edited:
Top