Branch Wire: Solid vs Stranded

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captain kirk key

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California
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Tulsa Electrician said:
Send him a link to this form and this thread before he makes his final decision. After that it is what it is.
You can also use the approach of stock in hand. Maybe compromise on all home runs and any raceway with more than three conductors.

Like your handle. Cool name
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I'd love to send him a link to this forum, if it wouldn't potentially get me in hot water :ROFLMAO:. And thank you!
 
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captain kirk key

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California
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Detailer
infinity said:
You need to work this out before you pull a single piece of wire. Years ago we pulled 4 floors worth of lighting homeruns all #10 stranded and they made us pull out all of it out and replace it with solid. A complete nightmare.
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This will absolutely be in writing and documented before anything is purchased
 
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Jake@01

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Port Angeles wa
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Journeyman Electrician
I think it should require a certain amount of hours worked in the trade before becoming an electrical engineer.

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tom baker

tom baker

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5 years from now, the maintenance electricians will be blaming someone for using solid when they have adds, moves and changes
 
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hillbilly1

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North Georgia mountains
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Owner/electrical contractor
Usually stranded is more expensive, so if labor is cheap, and material is expensive, solid it would be. A company I used to work for would not buy Caddy’s, and was drilling and bolting one hole straps. Apparently labor was cheap!
 
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tthh

Senior Member
Location
Denver
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Retired Engineer
I think the key is the engineer's statement: "please use #12 AWG solid copper, as the norm in commercial project wiring installations." Tell him is it not the "norm" to use solid in this type of project and then tell him why that is.
 
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Jake@01

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Port Angeles wa
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Correct, also a good rule of thumb . Especially on larger projects the saying " parts r cheap & labor is expensive " usually works out to benefit the electrical contractor.

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mtnelect

mtnelect

HVAC & Electrical Contractor
Location
Southern California
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Contractor, C10 & C20 - Semi Retired
We maintain a produce warehouse and all their branch circuits are not smaller than No. 12 THNN stranded. And their receptacle circuits are No. 10 THHN stranded for the longer runs.
 
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winnie

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Location
Springfield, MA, USA
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Electric motor research
On brainstorming ways to convince the engineer: have him join this forum.

I think that it is fair to state both the benefits and weaknesses of using stranded wire.

Stranded wire is electrically equivalent to solid.

Stranded wire is usually slightly more expensive than solid.

Stranded wire is easier to pull in conduit.

Solid wire is easier to push in conduit.

Solid wire is easier to form hooks for connecting to device terminals. (Note: if you use spec grade back wire receptacles this is not a significant benefit.)

Solid wire is easier to work with in wire nuts.

Solid wire is easier to dress neatly in panels.

Stranded wire is easier to move around in panels.

-Jon
 
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Strathead

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Ocala, Florida, USA
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Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
captain kirk key said:
As much as I would like to move forward with stranded and not say anything, there's just too much risk. This is a multi-million dollar project with hundreds of thousands of dollars in branch wire alone. If we get called on it, game over.
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Especially since you already asked the question. I think you should pull up your phone and let him read what is written here. Hoping he will understand that one responder using "dumb" would have been better served saying "uninformed. If that isn't enough, and it should be, ask him what concerns he would have then see if he is willing to take advice from this collective group. Lastly, get him in touch with the Southwire or the Encore Rep and let them ease his mind. Point out first and foremost that stranded costs more, and one should NEVER use solid for a vibrating connection. Point out that larger than #10 solid isn't even allowed.
 
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garbo

Senior Member
In my 50 years as an industrial electrician found the only reason contractors & designers specify solid #10 & 12 gauge wire is due to it be cheaper then the superior stranded wire. More then once have #14 solid control wire break inside a panel mounted to injection molding machines, punch press, hammer mill & even an air compressor. Yes you will not encounter such vibration in normal conduit runs but have removed best in class old building wire ( THHN/THWN ) that had both solid & stranded conductors in the same conduit. The nylon jacket on stranded conductors always allegedly to be in better shspe. At my first job our boss got tired of seeing a box of solid #8 wire so told us to use it up. Let two apprentice have fun pulling it thru a few bends without using wide lube.
 
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