Breaker Positions?

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frizbeedog

Senior Member
Location
Oregon
LarryFine said:
I also place all 2p breakers on one side, in rating order, with the largest at whichever end of the bus receives the power (not the cable entrance), followed by larger single-poles. See pic for an example:

KwPanels2.jpg

I also make sure to avoid back-to-back large breakers. The craziest thing I often see is two 60's for dual furnaces, even if the stabs are rated for 125a. Resistance heating is just too continuous a heavy load for my tastes.

I wish I could always work in a panel that clean and neat. Is that from a textbook?:rolleyes:
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
frizbeedog said:
I wish I could always work in a panel that clean and neat. Is that from a textbook?:rolleyes:
No, but thanx for the kudos. :smile: I did not make these panels pretty for the pictures; my panels always look like that in new work, and close on service changes. It takes no longer to do it neatly than it does to do it sloppily.

After untwisting and straightening the wires, I start logically, with the EGC's first, following the panel's back corners closely, neutrals second, etc. I never use wire ties to dress the wires; they stay in place by themselves.

I actually feel bad every time I look at this pic, because of how short the wires are to the second 2-pole breaker on the left side of the left panel. My helper trimmed them a bit short before I could stop him. :rolleyes: Oh, well.


I have some other pics from this house, including some LV runs we did. Lemme see if I can dig some up. Here's the view of the area above the panels. This area in the basement will stay rough, as it contains HVAC stuff, too.

staples1.jpg



Okay, here's front and rear of the garage lighting and the garage-end exterior lighting switch banks, with blown-insulation netting. You can see one of the two 200a disconnects in the far corner of the garage.

2boxesfront.jpg
2boxesrear.jpg



Here are front and rear views of boxes that will hold remote-control home-automation dimmers for the central portion of the house, such as foyer and great-room lighting, front exterior, etc., in an upstairs hall closet.

3boxesfront.jpg
3boxesrear.jpg



More later.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
LarryFine said:
I also place all 2p breakers on one side, in rating order, with the largest at whichever end of the bus receives the power (not the cable entrance), followed by larger single-poles.

Larry you know I have to ask. :smile:

How is the breaker order and it's relationship to the fed end of the bus going to make a darn bit of difference other then how neat it looks?

See you happened hit on a subject that I see many people spend a lot of time thinking on and I bet dollars to donuts it makes absolutely no difference. (Excluding back to back large loads, that can exceed the stab rating)
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
iwire said:
Larry you know I have to ask. :smile:

How is the breaker order and it's relationship to the fed end of the bus going to make a darn bit of difference other then how neat it looks?

See you happened hit on a subject that I see many people spend a lot of time thinking on and I bet dollars to donuts it makes absolutely no difference. (Excluding back to back large loads, that can exceed the stab rating)


A good song comes to mind by Styx, Too much time on my hands... :grin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntzCi1lu2ys
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
iwire said:
Larry you know I have to ask. :smile:
I do, and it's quite cool. :cool:

How is the breaker order and it's relationship to the fed end of the bus going to make a darn bit of difference other then how neat it looks?
My reasoning is voltage drop along the bus, and to a lesser degree, heat rise; the higher-rating breakers seem to run warmer*.

You may say a 15a and a 60a breaker both carrying 80% should be the same temperature, but that's not my experience.



Oh, and one more thing: it looks neat. ;)



* I rarely put mains at the bottom if I have them, but I do place the largest at the supplied end regardless.
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The factories always place the largest breakers away from the feed end.

A typical panel I might get is a 225 Amp MLO panel, if it needs a breaker larger then 100 it will be installed at the opposite end of the busses from the feed end. :smile:

No matter where you place the a large load in the panel and voltage drop it causes effects the entire panel.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
iwire said:
No matter where you place the a large load in the panel and voltage drop it causes effects the entire panel.
For voltage drop on the feeder, I agree. I'm thinking about the bus itself.
 

nakulak

Senior Member
imsho the most important thing to do in a panel (if you have the time on your hands) is to amp the phases after you are done (with everything running) and try to balance the phases if they are way out of whack. otherwise, putting the breakers in neatly in any fashion is just a complete waste of time.
 
nakulak said:
imsho the most important thing to do in a panel (if you have the time on your hands) is to amp the phases after you are done (with everything running) and try to balance the phases if they are way out of whack. otherwise, putting the breakers in neatly in any fashion is just a complete waste of time.

That's all well and good if you're using NM, what about THHN? Wouldn't you have to re-pull the correct colored wires?
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
nakulak said:
imsho the most important thing to do in a panel (if you have the time on your hands) is to amp the phases after you are done (with everything running) and try to balance the phases if they are way out of whack. otherwise, putting the breakers in neatly in any fashion is just a complete waste of time.

Many times...especially in residential...taking amp readings is simple a waste of time with no conclusive results....90% of the recept.s have no load....how does one even attempt to balance that out?
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
pbeasley said:
That's all well and good if you're using NM, what about THHN? Wouldn't you have to re-pull the correct colored wires?
Is there an article that says:
- A? must be black (brown)
- B? must be red (orange)
- C? must be blue (yellow)


If I ran 12/3 MC/AC/NM into a 3? panel...am I limited to using only A? and B??
What if the whole job was done using MC/AC/NM?
 
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