Buchanan smashing

[gndrod]

Sorry didn't see you there Marc. The four tang crimpers originated in Aerospace and are too expensive for Newbies. There is depth setting issues that cause loose bonding unless the tool-die is adjustable or size changed.
I agree with you on getting into the depths of the box. out-of-touch

 

[gndrod]

I've tended to specialize in nice jobs. :wink:

Dang you are fast tooo.

 

[mdshunk]

The four tang crimpers originated in Aerospace and are too expensive for Newbies.

Oh come, now. The pair in my picture I've had for nearly 20 years, purchased pretty much when I was a newbie. I just looked them up, and they're 40 bucks now. Right on par with what a new pair of nine's cost now. I just had to buy a new pair of Klein needle-nose pliers a few weeks ago, and they were 36 bucks. Most newbies own a pair of those. Adjustment? Bah, humbug. They hold two conductors as tightly as they hold 10. They have an 'A' and a 'B' setting, to accommodate both the small and large crimp sleeves, that I've pictured in my photo. I have no special issue with whatever method a guy wants to use. They're all legal. There's nothing wrong with crimp sleeves.

 

[gndrod]

I agree with you on using crimp sleeves, but using copper depends on the grade the manufacturer makes. Some are almost bronze and crack. You are using a close tolerance crimper and that makes a difference in the result. BTW a pair of Buchanan's Mil qualified in 1972 cost about what you mentioned. I am surprised the price has not changed today. Probably made in China now.

 

[mdshunk]

BTW a pair of Buchanan's Mil qualified in 1972 cost about what you mentioned. .

Maybe you build rocket ships? I just wire buildings.

 

[iwire]

Marc the only crimp sleeves I have personal experience with where made of light weight copper, when used with 12 or 10 AWG the conductors seem to be stronger than the crimp, once you flex the grounds into and out of the box the crimp seems to loosens up.

I am more than willing to believe that some crimps are made of better copper or steel ones are better, I just have never run into any like that.

 

[mdshunk]

Marc the only crimp sleeves I have personal experience with where made of light weight copper, when used with 12 or 10 AWG the conductors seem to be stronger than the crimp, once you flex the grounds into and out of the box the crimp seems to loosens up..

I've run across those as well. I'd rather think that they were not crimped with the proper tool. When you get the 4-way crimp action going on, it's just one big mass. The troublemakers are the one's that were just flattened with the jaws of the nine's or crimped with non-compliant tooling. I've got a MDP feed to replace on the schedule in which the terminals were crimped on with the proper gauge die, but not the proper brand (crimp profile wrong for the terminal used). They heated over time, and now the terminals and the associated feed require replacement.

 

[George Stolz]

Marc, excellent picture.

However, I think it's come to light either in this thread, or one before or since, that until the very handy tails are cut off the end and the correllating insulator is installed on the crimp per the manufacturers instructions....

...breath...

...we have a (minor) 110.3(B) violation.

 

[mdshunk]

However, I think it's come to light either in this thread, or one before or since, that until the very handy tails are cut off the end and the correllating insulator is installed on the crimp per the manufacturers instructions, ...we have a (minor) 110.3(B) violation.

Why would you feel compelled to insulate a connection of bare conductors? All connectors that have an insulating shell available (such as H-Taps and split bolts) will also list the insulating shell in the instructions. In fact, the Buchannan crimp sleeve instructions begin by saying to strip the conductors. Maybe I can't use them at all, since the conductors are already bare, and I can't strip them (in the case of NM)? In any event, I just scanned in the box instructions, so everyone's on the same page:

 

[George Stolz]

Why would you feel compelled to insulate a connection of bare conductors?

For the sole reason that the manufacturer's installation instructions are not worded as "optional". That is a step in the process of a completed product.

Believe me, I was aware of this while installing this product without the insulators (and using the conductors that stick out the top), but decided all on my own that those portions of the instructions were unnecessary.

And if I was failed, I would not have had a leg to stand on.

Considering that probably 99% of supply houses in this state don't even stock the insulators, perhaps it would behoove the manufacturer to relist their product without them, so that the 99.9% of crimp sleeves installed successfully in the field would be entirely compliant.

JMO,

 

[mdshunk]

They'd also have to remove the "cut flush" part of the instruction.

 

[wrestless]

Bucannan Smashing

Bucannan Smashing

I have been using crimps for many years and no disrespect to anyone but I crimp them along side of the crimp and it is a very sound crimp. If I ever have to go back into a splice for any reason I just cut the overhang of the crimp and unsplice my grounds. I guess its all what you are used to , you see I splice primarily with my diagonals unless I am splicing more than 5 - #12s
then naturally I would use linemans.

 

[donselectric]

if you crimp like that your most likely violating the manufactures
instructions.there supposed to be an indent.

 

[peter d]

Actually, the Wago do have a place for multiple EGCs in an enclosure. There really is no code compliant way to splice more than 5 or 6 of them all together. Most wire connectors are not rated for anything over 5-6 #12's, even the large blue wing nuts. So the 6,8 and 10 port Wago's come in handy for this.

 

[mdshunk]

There really is no code compliant way to splice more than 5 or 6 of them all together.

The larger Buchannan's are rated for 7, #12's. In fairness, I do have a small supply of the large Wago type connectors. They look like miniature harmonicas.

 

[speedypetey]

If your interested the NEC requires you use the correct crimping tool.

It has to be listed on the crimp packaging.

I was obviously aware you had to use the correct tool. I also knew you could use standard Ideal linemans on their crimps.

What I didn't know was that as per Marc's pic
even Buchanan lists regular Ideal's linemans (stock with crimper) as an "alternate tool".
This is good to know if I ever am faced with using only Buchanans.

 

[peter d]

The funny thing is, when I think of Buchanans, these come to mind:

These, just like the crimps, are either love 'em or hate 'em. I hate 'em.

 

[Tori]

I really can't beleve I read that whole thread

I have used them before, in my home and others - with a crimp tool, perhaps not the proper one but they hold purty darn well
And yes I have done old work and had to remove them also, some more difficult than others

There, now I can't believe I replied to this thread.

:roll: