Buchanan smashing

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wow....it's funny to see an old thread that I started exhumed from the depths of the internet. :D

Anyway, I haven't touched one of those stupid crimps in a few years now. The company I now work for keeps it nice and simple- pigtail everything and use a wire nut - even on the ground wires.

I see absolutely no reason for the crimp caps to remain in existence.
 
Wow, I'm in the middle of an argument I don't remember! :D

I'm in the same boat as Peter D now, everything I do is pigtailed.

Pierre said:
But, if they are so hard to remove, how come they just fall off????
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M. D. said:
For those like George , who like to crimp it hard ,... I have found many equipment grounds almost cut in half. All have been with the four way crimper.
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This reads like the story of the three bears. :D

When I crimp it, it's just right. ;)
 
I crimp.... never had a problem, I use a these to crimp
toolsplus_1940_109509388


And if for some strange reason I actually had to remove one, I just use my dykes, but FWIW, I can't honestly tell you the last time I removed one...
 
As for crimp barrels. If the wires are pretwisted first, then crimped using the specified tool for that particular brand of tube, with the appropriate force applied, you have yourself a good termination, UL listed, and code approved. Untwisted wires are usually the problem, and also either under torque or over torque is improper to install the things. Another area to watch out for is having so many bonding conductors in the same tube that you are unable to reduce the size during crimp, due to lack of strength to apply enough force. In that situation, another type of termination such as a wire nut is imho a better termination.
 
Oh boy, I'm new to this forum but Buchanans is as good a place as any to start.

Haven't seen them in years because that's how long I've been away from residential wiring. Don't believe I've have seen them in the commercial/industrial environment. Still, when I had to use them I preferred wirenuts because it made no sense to have to tediously tear apart a joint when all you have to do is back the wirenut off. I do remember the crimp barrels being used on the hots and neutrals, too. Wirenuts are faster and easier.
 
catman said:
Wirenuts are faster and easier.
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Not so fast catman my friend. I've used about a million barrels in commercial jobs, ok thousands then.:smile:
I use stranded wire mostly. I squeeze my stripper on the green wire, pull it so that 1/2" of insulation pulled back once there is sufficient length left on the conductor to meet code, slide a tube on, slip in the box pigtail wire, crimp, and the tail goes on the receptacle outlet ground screw. I am pretty certain that it is faster to do that than pigtailing all conductors together.
 
i have seen all to many times while taking them apart who ever installed them has cut the wire to 2in so when the buck comes off there is nothing to work with...the 6in rule counts for the gr wire too.
also if the wrong crimper is used it ends up loose or so tight when
you do get it off the conductor is so crushed it breaks off with an inch
in the box..i have in the past failed the rough for this reason...
common sense isn't so common when you give a monkey a pair of
kliens and tell him to crimp these with all that leverage......:cool:
 
It's funny how everyone who "HATES" crimps can only cite the times when they were installed wrong or when they have to remove them.

Anyone who wants to see them installed correctly come look at mine.
If you have to remove one, too bad. If you have to un-do that many made up boxes you are forgetting too many things and deserve it. The RARE times I have to remove one I can deal with it. If I have to add a cable I just add another crimp in front of the other.
I use them so I can leave out as many tails as there are devices. I myself HATE it when guys loop a long ground from one device to another.

I use Ideal crimps with Ideal (or Klein) pliers with the crimper. The Ideal crimps are designed/listed to be crimped with their lineman's pliers, and the crimper on Klein's is IDENTICAL.
The reason for Buchanan requiring their 4-way crimper is that Buchanan crimps are thin copper, not heavier steel.
 
speedypetey said:
It's funny how everyone who "HATES" crimps can only cite the times when they were installed wrong or when they have to remove them..
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No I Hate them even if I don't have to remove them. :grin:

Do they get the job done?

I am sure they do, can say I have never see one fail.

I don't like Wagos, speed-wired devices or ground clips either. But thats whats great about our trade, we do get to do things 'our way' to a great extent. :smile:

I have no ill will against people that like to use any of those products, there are good reason to use them.
 
speedypetey said:
I use Ideal crimps with Ideal (or Klein) pliers with the crimper. The Ideal crimps are designed/listed to be crimped with their lineman's pliers, and the crimper on Klein's is IDENTICAL.
The reason for Buchanan requiring their 4-way crimper is that Buchanan crimps are thin copper, not heavier steel.
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If your interested the NEC requires you use the correct crimping tool.

It has to be listed on the crimp packaging.
 
iwire said:
If your interested the NEC requires you use the correct crimping tool.

It has to be listed on the crimp packaging.
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Hi Bob,
It's been a while, and I must say years of wiring resi has exposed me to many different opinions and methods...and circumstances that code does not intervene or regulate until the AHJ steps on your Kleins.
I can remember making up an entire house using 410's and the AHJ deemed that WAGO's were required before a close-in buyoff. The hots and neutrals were also included in the requirement. This was back in the old frontier days where you did what the sheriff told you. Seems his brother owned the only electrical house in the county and couldn't give the little buggers away.

As far as nowadays, old timers that have become inspectors and see Greenies being used, they give em a little tug and if there is just one bare conductor that pops out I would not want to be the one to fix and prove that all the other Greenie Bonds have been made. Greenies are unproven until the blind spot has been removed. (i.e. Make em clear instead.)

Also note that it is quicker to crimp a 410 with multiple bonding jumpers for a 3gg switch box without additional 'loop' jumpering as a Greenie only has one pigtail coming out of its end. Residential is a lot different so beg my pardon sheriff.
Yers truely, out of touch.
 
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I use crimp sleeves because they save room in the box. Maybe not NEC square inches, but real square inches. I use the Buchannan press tool for both the steel and the copper crimp sleeves, although the copper one's are more easily sourced in my area.

crimpsleeves.jpg
 
iwire said:
I hate barrel crimps.

Have not used one for many years.
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George mentioned using the steel 410's. The copper's are too soft and can't hold pajama's on a clothesline. Speedypetey seems to back that up for the crimps too. Must be the experience in the project application that speaks the best for certain tools and hardware. Doing a few residentials with Greenies and Twister's give poor results compared to crimp sleeves. JMO
 
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36 years in the trade, but have not done any substantial residential in a 32 years (friends and my house's excluded).
BUT WHAT ARE

410's????????????????
WAGO's ?????????????
Greenies?????????????


Actually the last house I did any paid work on was profiled today on a repeat of this old house on DIY. The Frederic Douglas House in Washington DC is under going a major remodel, I would assume the Fire Alarm system I installed will be replaced as part of the upgrades?
 
gndrod said:
The copper's are too soft and can't hold pajama's on a clothesline.
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I'm very surprised to learn that this is the opinion of some. I've never had any issue with the holding power of the copper crimp sleeves when crimped with the 4way crimper. Never had one tear, split, or break either. I'm not a fan of copper or steel, in particular. The copper one's sure do press easier, though.
 
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