But we can all buy George a burrito, can't we?
Burrito Q: Fastening of EMT
- Thread starter George Stolz
- Start date
- Status
But we can all buy George a burrito, can't we?
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
He voted correctly so yes he gets a burrito with fries.
Send the bill to all the ones that voted wrong.
Sorry Jim, if you read the first post you will see that George was only the referee and unless he disregarded the majority he would have had to make the call against his stance.
Roger
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
1.430 viewed this, we only have 41 votes in. Majority just happen to be wrong.
I assumed the burrito that got delivered was from Bob LOL
I do love mexican food but then i like almost anyfood.
I sometime think the CMP should be required to be members here. We often have disagreements here simply based on poor wording. They never spare words just don't use the right ones.
OR better yet lets have Mike write a code book and scrap the NEC. Lot of money for a poorly writen book
I assumed the burrito that got delivered was from Bob LOL
I do love mexican food but then i like almost anyfood.
I sometime think the CMP should be required to be members here. We often have disagreements here simply based on poor wording. They never spare words just don't use the right ones.
OR better yet lets have Mike write a code book and scrap the NEC. Lot of money for a poorly writen book
Charlie:
Then why does B repeat the part about about securing the conduit within 3' of the termination points? That's already covered in A.
I think that the last three words of B - "shall be permitted" - are exactly the words in B that undo part of A.
Steve
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
No there were 430 views when you posted this, many are the same veiwers with many visits.
And those votes are all that counts for a concensus at the time.
It doesn't matter who or what won, the fact is that the majority is what it is.
Roger
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
And George did not say when the vote ends. So he can wait till a few more get the answer correct. LOL
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
I would not call a 100+ post discussion about such a basic topic a failure; I am sitting here with a big grin on my face.
As far as that goes, you're right. I think the two who instigated this discussion just like to argue, as two minutes passed by before the next discussion, about whether a second-hand contact high was truth or fiction.
I attempted to present the information as unbiased as I could; I said that Chris and I were in the minority, and that there was a handbook diagram depicting the installation as compliant.
I did inject that I believe that as of this cycle, the wording does not jive with the intent. If I remember to submit a proposal for this for the 2014 cycle, I will recommend adjusting the layout and wording to match that intent.
I do not agree with the installation method, but as Bob adroitly pointed out, the exception does clearly allow conduit to be unfastened when fished, which severely overrides any concern about damage to the conduit from a wire pull. The NEC is a minimum standard, and while under most circumstances I would require a higher standard (as does the foreman on this job), I can appreciate having the option for unforeseen circumstances.
As far as the burrito goes, I told them to go 60-40 on one, but they declined - I am interested in any more discussion folks around here have to offer, and I am leaving the poll open.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Regardless of NEC it would make a very poor install and if i ever tried to pass that off i am sure i would never run another job. Last week we were dealing with using emt as the ground for a feed. Now think about this, a run of emt that can be pushed or pulled. How long till it comes out of a coupling ?
And i still stand on it says A and B we can't ignore A and only do B
Your only mistake in this pole was offering a burrito, some of kill over things like this. Good job George, you made us all think.
And i still stand on it says A and B we can't ignore A and only do B
Your only mistake in this pole was offering a burrito, some of kill over things like this. Good job George, you made us all think.
glene77is
Senior Member
- Location
- Memphis, TN
Jim,
Good Point.
I think you are getting to the Intent of the code.
Secured and strapped conduit will stay secured and strapped.
In order for EGC to have a long term continuous connection,
to fulfill the function of the EGC system,
the conduit must be strapped and secure.
Secured and Strapped, or Strapped and Secured.
Either way you read it.
The conduit must provide a predictably continuous electrical path.
Every time the handbook provides an example,
it need not provide all possible examples to make the point.
If it illustrates IMC, that does not preclude coverage for all other types of conduit.
Exclusion of some other type of conduit would have to be made as a separate issue.
The concept and intent of the code are primary considerations
in interpreting and applying the code.
Sorry to belabor a point, which you obviously grasp
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- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Ah! You bring up a good point, I hadn't read the exception close enough to notice the unbroken aspect as it relates to this discussion.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Jim,
Good Point.
I think you are getting to the Intent of the code.
Secured and strapped conduit will stay secured and strapped.
In order for EGC to have a long term continuous connection,
to fulfill the function of the EGC system,
the conduit must be strapped and secure.
Secured and Strapped, or Strapped and Secured.
Either way you read it.
The conduit must provide a predictably continuous electrical path.
Every time the handbook provides an example,
it need not provide all possible examples to make the point.
If it illustrates IMC, that does not preclude coverage for all other types of conduit.
Exclusion of some other type of conduit would have to be made as a separate issue.
The concept and intent of the code are primary considerations
in interpreting and applying the code.
Sorry to belabor a point, which you obviously grasp
The NEC allows EMT to be fished unsupported unsecured, why is it so hard to believe they would also allow it to just be supported not secured.
As far as the burrito goes, I told them to go 60-40 on one, but they declined - I am interested in any more discussion folks around here have to offer, and I am leaving the poll open.
So in other words, from the onset you were not going to accept the poll result unless it sided with your view? It wouldn't matter how many votes determined the winner, unless of course we have voters from Palm Beach FL then it would be because of who knows.
Roger
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Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Come on Bob we know your smarter than that. They permit romex to be fished too. That exception is only allowed because the wall is finished and system is reasonably safe from harm.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
My opinion did contribute to my analysis, right alongside the fact that the handbook says it's okay, 60% of respondents said it's okay, there was an ROP indicating that it's okay - that by all indications it's the intent of the makers of the code to allow what the handbook depicts. I did declare the opposing view to have won, but cautioned that all it takes is the hosting AHJ siding with the minority to make it code (90.4). Given the close nature of the poll, it stands to reason that if an inspector sided with the minority that it would be an uphill battle to overturn a failed inspection.
I don't think offering a detailed summary of the facts at hand to be improper. As I see it, both sides have valid points, and to ignore those points from either the majority or minority opinion would be doing a disservice to the two guys who had interest in the topic. I figured (knowing the two) that no burrito would be actually purchased unless it was incontrovertible (ie 95-5) that there was one clear winner.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
How long a stick of EMT is available? I assume they make 20' sticks, but I've only seen 10'.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
I think we need to get Bill Clinton involved (you know, the meaning of is .... is) :grin:
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
I voted compliant, but I would use some tiewraps or tie wire to restrict lateral movement, especially near the couplings.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
That is what this is all about. If you strap it then it complies to A
As far as code we must use the words as written in the NEC bible. Can not change them.
All comes down to a simple word. AND had it said OR there would be no disagreement.
Can anyone show me anyplace in the code where it says we can ignore A if we meet B ????
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