- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I did not read your post correctly
C.E.C 300.4 Protection against Physical Damage.
- Thread starter former inspector
- Start date
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Okay and thanks for posting that. I thought that they agreed with me but was surprised when you said that they didn't. It seems confirmed that the protection is required and that they won't accept an exception for where you enter a box.
former inspector
Member
- Location
- Modesto, Ca
- Occupation
- Retired Building Inspector
It is great seeing all these posts with all the professional knowledgeable Code professionals out here. I appreciate every one's time and input. This location needs to start having a great deal of emphasis put on it and explained and detailed better, even though the Verbiage is already in the Code, and the wanted exceptions from the discussion of the NFPA exception 4 was not allowed and protection is required. That is why I am on this great site and only want consistency with our profession, and above all , others opinions on this or what they are doing. It is wrong for an Inspector to look the other way or not enforce a required Code because in his opinion he doesn't think it to be a problem, or has always missed it..... It is what I am experiencing now !. As a Inspector for a City for 25 years, I loved reading and interpreting code's with my guys or other Cities folks and work to be consistent and inspect and enforce the Building Codes that the City hired me to do, no matter my thoughts or my own opinions......I do not think we can inspect to one's opinion of a certain Code, if it is written into the Code then it SHALL be enforced... Bored holes through plates and spacing along parallel members ( 1 1/4") always is looked at and everyone on my Electrical contractors and inspectors know the Code on this part, but Completely fail and dismiss the required box protection. Some even ridicule this requirement once I explain the Code and why I protect my jobs....
former inspector
Member
- Location
- Modesto, Ca
- Occupation
- Retired Building Inspector
If it is in the Code, I would be hard pressed to not call a portion of this code and not others. When I start assuming that there may not be issues, and I know otherwise, then why have codes if only portions are called and nothing else in that realm and scheme of things. I always strive to be better at my profession, but I am finding others not so much.... You would think one wants to be better and call a code, leaving their own biased opinion out. Its seems this was looked at and opinions/exceptions were shot down, for good reason. If anyone is reading this throughout this Country, I would like to know who enforces this box protection , enforces the code as written, and welcome their opinion. Please message me privately if need be to avoid ridicule, I would greatly appreciate it
You need to understand the way code rules and their wording are put into the actual code. It takes a Public Input with substantiation.
For instance, the requirement for all commercial kitchen GFCI's came about due to casualties which was the substantiation for the ROP (PI now).
I agree with infinity that the current wording does cover it but if so many are not enforcing it it might be a good time to submit a PI with specific wording.
For instance, the requirement for all commercial kitchen GFCI's came about due to casualties which was the substantiation for the ROP (PI now).
I agree with infinity that the current wording does cover it but if so many are not enforcing it it might be a good time to submit a PI with specific wording.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
As I mentioned previously, In my over 40 in the trade I have never seen wiring damaged either directly before or inside the box. I have seen may damaged wires inside wall from shear nails and long screws.
Yes codes should be followed but there also needs to be common sense.
The only jurisdiction and inspector I have seen enforce this protection requires plates behind the box. What about the several inches of cable above or below the box?
Also may GC's remove the plates behind switch boxes after inspection. They cause a bump in the drywall that creates issues with the door jamb casing.
Yes codes should be followed but there also needs to be common sense.
The only jurisdiction and inspector I have seen enforce this protection requires plates behind the box. What about the several inches of cable above or below the box?
Also may GC's remove the plates behind switch boxes after inspection. They cause a bump in the drywall that creates issues with the door jamb casing.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
ANY cable in the 1.25" area needs to be protected including the several inches that you've mentioned.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Strictly by code yes but the jurisdiction requiring the protection asks for a 4sq blank behind the box. This only protects the wires in the box.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If the 4" square isn't big enough then you'll need two or three of them or a bigger nail plate.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
As I’ve said before, Moses didn’t come down from the Mount carrying the NEC, written with the Finger of God.
It’s a great document for the most part, compiled by those with more experience and knowledge than myself, but a far from perfect tome, hence the need to update it incessantly.
And local interpretation should be final.
It’s a great document for the most part, compiled by those with more experience and knowledge than myself, but a far from perfect tome, hence the need to update it incessantly.
And local interpretation should be final.
mtnelect
HVAC & Electrical Contractor
- Location
- Southern California
- Occupation
- Contractor, C10 & C20 - Semi Retired
In Souther California, they have "Combination Inspector", do other jurisdictions use them ?
rc/retired
Senior Member
- Location
- Bellvue, Colorado
- Occupation
- Master Electrician/Inspector retired
Colorado does. I was one. Electrical inspections are now required to be done by licensed electricians, though.
Ron
former inspector
Member
- Location
- Modesto, Ca
- Occupation
- Retired Building Inspector
Hi Curt, first of all , thank you for your input. When I was inspecting I made sure that when they came out of the box turned up into the center of stud to get the 1 1/4 from framing member edge.. or protected, to include the box.
former inspector
Member
- Location
- Modesto, Ca
- Occupation
- Retired Building Inspector
Thank you for the reply, and appreciate you input
former inspector
Member
- Location
- Modesto, Ca
- Occupation
- Retired Building Inspector
combination inspectors ?
Building, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc.....
former inspector
Member
- Location
- Modesto, Ca
- Occupation
- Retired Building Inspector
Hi Ron, Electrical inspections from a City or County jurisdiction has to be done by a licensed electrician ? Or a licensed electrician brought up through the trade and hired on as an inspector that is able to do the electrical inspections for the City ? But has to have an electrical background to perform electrical inspections.....I heard that Boise Idaho requires and inspector to have a plumbing background to look at plumbing, and unless the inspector has that back ground, then he or she may not be able to perform the plumbing inspection....
former inspector
Member
- Location
- Modesto, Ca
- Occupation
- Retired Building Inspector
Agree, but then again, the Verbiage is already written into the code. It just gets overlooked. I agree more emphasis and spending time in training on this topic would go along way... When I used to go to the training, it was great taking the courses that knowledgeable instructors taught, and the in class questions and feedback from the instructors and individuals in the class. Great teaching and learning on how others interpret the code. Kind of like this topic here.
rc/retired
Senior Member
- Location
- Bellvue, Colorado
- Occupation
- Master Electrician/Inspector retired
A licensed electrician is hired by a city, county, state or private inspection agency. That electrician should be a journeyman at a minimum.
I was hired as a master electrician and then I studied the other trades codes, took the inspectors tests given by the International Code Council, (ICC). thus becoming a combination inspector.
Ron
I have gleaned from the court cases and attorneys I have met over the years that the role of inspection agencies and inspectors is not to catch every code violation, but to look for egregious violations that would put a undue burden on the fire department and or pose a hazard to the general public.
There is no liability on an inspection agency or government entity if a building defect is missed.
Instead the liability is divided between the Licensed contractor(s), builder, and engineer(s) of record and of course the property owner to perform maintenance and do due diligence when hiring a contractor.
If you look at the case law you'll find liability is always on the contractor to 100% follow code, and the inspectors can only be culpable for extreme cases like gross negligence, racketeering and conspiracy AKA taking bribes.
Here in the city NM cable is not allowed but upstate it is and I have never seen the back of boxes protected for any cable NM, BX or flex.