California 3-Way

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Dennis Alwon said:
I would call it parallel neutral but also if the raceway is metallic then the neutral is not run with the hot conductor-- this would be a violation. Current will flow both directions on the neutral. At best it will cause excessive EMF's.
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I see what you mean with post 13, but post 5 (diagram 2) seems okay to me.
 
Are all the people from cal.weird? Why would you screw up such a simple thing ?Nothing to gain but prove your differant.In 73 i left beutifull PA and had 2 choices,1 was FL other CAL..Glad i made right choice.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Are all the people from cal.weird? Why would you screw up such a simple thing ?Nothing to gain but prove your differant.In 73 i left beutifull PA and had 2 choices,1 was FL other CAL..Glad i made right choice.
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I'm talking code here. The diagram in post 5 looks legal to me. It's not something I've ever done before or even seen, actually. I have no idea why they call it a "California 3-way".
 
paul said:
If you're going off of diagram #2 on page 1, I've always referred to that as powering and switching at the same location (power and switch-leg are in the same box), which is legal.
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No because even when you have power and switch leg in same switch box with a dead end 3 wire on the other end your sending your hot over to the other switch on the point or common and the switch leg is on the point or common of the first box that it is in, so you are exxentially feeding it at the other end and switching it at the other which is normal but diagram #2 has a hot on both switches and it's not on the point but on one of the traveller terminals. Not a conventional method at all.

When I say no I'm just saying no to the rest of your statement but not the legal part because diagram2 may be legal for all I know.
 
There's another configuration I have seen that uses both a neutral and a hot at each 3-way switch location. It ends up switching the polarity at the lamp back and forth. The knob and tubers use to wire them like that occasionally. Some of the older houses in SF were originally wired without a grounded conductor so polarity wasn't much of an issue then. It's also called a California 3-way by some.
 
ike5547 said:
There's another configuration I have seen that uses both a neutral and a hot at each 3-way switch location. It ends up switching the polarity at the lamp back and forth. The knob and tubers use to wire them like that occasionally. Some of the older houses in SF were originally wired without a grounded conductor so polarity wasn't much of an issue then. It's also called a California 3-way by some.
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that one is illegal.
The other might be but not sure if you could remark romex to make it legal.
 
paul said:
What are we...chopped liver!? Washingtonians don't like ya either. :grin:
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Sorry, I always cut you guys some slack. I have one sister-in-law that lives in Federal Way and another in Spokan. We actually like it up there.:D
 
I like what you can do with cut and paste
here is the fourway. :)

Als Traveling bus switch.jpg
 
Post 13 is not a legal set up, though I've seen it done before:mad: . You could do that type of set up legally with 4wire romex tho i would think.
A california 3way set up in the manner of Post 5 is very legal. You see it often in older houses that have greenfield ran because it saves wire counts in conduits.
There is also a system in which you can switch the "neutral wire" in which the hot leg swaps inbetween the light fixture shell and the screw in the back of the socket. This is not legal, it is very unsafe as the neutral shell does become energized. Normally you will see this, if you ever happen to run into this, on 3wayd pole lights with overhead wiring.
Both systems are oldschool.
We have an old master that hangs around and helps us out with the californias when we're doing renos. They are still odd to me but they do work well and can save you in a pinch, and good to know for service work too.
 
xformer said:
Is the California 3-way legal to use in the state of Texas? I know that California 3-way means different things to different people, so, allow me to clarify. What I mean by the California 3-way is that the two 3-way switches are wired in parallel with a common hot from each switch to the load. No switching takes place in the neutral. I haven't found anything in the code to suggest they are illegal.
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This design has many names.... That said, you can not use a Texas 3-way in California, or a Chicago 3-way in either... I think it gets named locally by those who have a grudge on any state, city, town, or entity - it gets what ever name that is...

That said, (from the 02)
404.2 Switch Connections.
(A) Three-Way and Four-Way Switches. Three-way and four-way switches shall be wired so that all switching is done only in the ungrounded circuit conductor. Where in metal raceways or metal-armored cables, wiring between switches and outlets shall be in accordance with 300.20(A).
Exception: Switch loops shall not require a grounded conductor.
(B) Grounded Conductors. Switches or circuit breakers shall not disconnect the grounded conductor of a circuit.
Exception: A switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to disconnect a grounded circuit conductor where all circuit conductors are disconnected simultaneously, or where the device is arranged so that the grounded conductor cannot be disconnected until all the ungrounded conductors of the circuit have been disconnected.
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