California electrical license, again

[electrofelon]

I have a very good client who wants me to do a building renovation (just the electrical component) in Modesto, CA. I am a licensed journeyman in WA and MA, and an electrical contractor and administrator in WA. I read thru this recent thread, but am still confused about the best route to go:

California contractors licensing, please explain

I understand and agree that a Genteral Contractor can file an electrical permit when more that two trades are involved, but please show me the text of the law that permits him or anyone else to perform electrical work without being licensed electricain with the State of California. 108.2. (b)...

forums.mikeholt.com

I dont need to hire employees for this, so that does simplify things. Am I thinking about this right that the simplest route is to Get a class B or C-10 contractor license and then I can do the electrical, without being "certified"?

Is there a route to getting "certified" as an electrician and being able to pull a permit and do the work, or do you need to be a contractor to do the permit part?

There is a person in the company that I think is a licensed CA contractor (awaiting confirmation and what type). IF he is a class B, seems per that thread, I can "work for him" and do the install. IF he is a C-10 I need to be certified?

Thanks

 

[jaggedben]

So let's not use 'certified' here when we want to say 'licensed', and vice versa, because those are not the same thing in Cali. You can be a licensed electrical contractor (C-10 is the contractor classification) without being a certified journeyman, and vice versa.

For a building renovation that I presume also involves two trades other than electrical (framing and plumbing, e.g) yes, the B can hire you as an employee t9 do the electrical. Alternatively, maybe you can apply for C-10 if there's some easy reciprocity with WA, and he can subcontract the electrical. That's going to be a more difficult route so not recommend unless you want to maintain the C-10 for a few more jobs.

You need to be a contractor to pull a permit, which us to say 'licensed'. You'll also need a business license in Modesto. But if the B puts the electrical work on his permit you don't need to do that stuff.

The reality is likely that if you do a good job no one will ask which arrangement the work was done under, especially if it's residential. I mean, I've not dealt with Modesto, but based on the places I've dealt with...

 

[jaggedben]

If you do get C-10 and contract or work under subcontract, you can hire one helper to work as an apprentice (I believe) and then must hire 1 to 1 journeyman and apprentices for electrical work. Not that this is likely to be enforced in residential.

 

[mtnelect]

As of this date only Arizona, Louisiana, and Nevada have reciprocal licensing agreements.
So, it looks like you are going to have to apply for a California license.

 

[mtnelect]

It was the "Trunk Slammer" term that got the IBEW to lobby Sacramento for electrician certification with Department of Industrial Relations.

If you are a California C10 contractor, you can only hire certified Apprentices or Electricians that are registered with the DIR and have a 25,000 bond with Workman Compensation insurance.

 

[mtnelect]

But, if you are unlicensed ?

 

[mtnelect]

But if you are unlicensed and the owner files a complaint against you ... the CSLB will implement the magnifying glass.

 

[ramsy]

IF he is a class B, seems per that thread, I can "work for him" and do the install. IF he is a C-10 I need to be certified?

Case precedent under CA B&P 7044 does not recognize employees without proof of payroll services with Worker's Comp., unemployment insurances, and all State & Fed. tax deductions.

Without proof of employment you are subject to the limits of B&P 7048 as an unlicensed contractor.

Exceeding those limits violates license law, and voids property insurance.

One EC I apprenticed with told us getting injured on his job forces property owners to burry us in the deepest ditch possible, to hide all evidence of our illegal existence, and possibility of filing an injury claim.

Welcome to our law-less community. If we don't see you on the forum anymore, we'll know you were buried in Modesto.

 

[electrofelon]

So let's not use 'certified' here when we want to say 'licensed', and vice versa, because those are not the same thing in Cali. You can be a licensed electrical contractor (C-10 is the contractor classification) without being a certified journeyman, and vice versa.

For a building renovation that I presume also involves two trades other than electrical (framing and plumbing, e.g) yes, the B can hire you as an employee t9 do the electrical. Alternatively, maybe you can apply for C-10 if there's some easy reciprocity with WA, and he can subcontract the electrical. That's going to be a more difficult route so not recommend unless you want to maintain the C-10 for a few more jobs.

You need to be a contractor to pull a permit, which us to say 'licensed'. You'll also need a business license in Modesto. But if the B puts the electrical work on his permit you don't need to do that stuff.

The reality is likely that if you do a good job no one will ask which arrangement the work was done under, especially if it's residential. I mean, I've not dealt with Modesto, but based on the places I've dealt with...

Ok thanks, that makes sense. I found out the owners brother is a current B contractor in CA, so me working for him sounds pretty easy and straightforward.

 

[electrofelon]

Case precedent under CA B&P 7044 does not recognize employees without proof of payroll services with Worker's Comp., unemployment insurances, and all State & Fed. tax deductions.

Without proof of employment you are subject to the limits of B&P 7048 as an unlicensed contractor.

Exceeding those limits violates license law, and voids property insurance.

One EC I apprenticed with told us getting injured on his job forces property owners to burry us in the deepest ditch possible, to hide all evidence of our illegal existence, and possibility of filing an injury claim.

Welcome to our law-less community. If we don't see you on the forum anymore, we'll know you were buried in Modesto.

Me being a formal employee for this job does not seem like any big deal and could be accommodated.

 

[electrofelon]

For a building renovation that I presume also involves two trades other than electrical (framing and plumbing, e.g) yes, the B can hire you as an employee t9 do the electrical.

So the class B MUST do at least 3 trades on the job?

 

[jaggedben]

So the class B MUST do at least 3 trades on the job?

Not quite. They can subcontract the specialties, or do only two trades if neither of them are framing or carpentry.

From CSLB website:

A general building contractor shall not take a prime contract for any project involving trades other than framing or carpentry unless the prime contract requires at least two unrelated building trades or crafts other than framing or carpentry, or unless the general building contractor holds the appropriate license classification or subcontracts with an appropriately licensed specialty contractor to perform the work ...

For a simple residential remodel it's not hard to pile up two trades other than framing. If you've already got drywall and painting then electrical or plumbing is 'free'.

 

[mtnelect]

Why do we have all these requirements for contracting in California ... It's the consumer that have been scammed for years by unlicensed contractors. Please, do not look for loopholes, get the required license(s) for you project.
Let us all come together to identify those who undercut us.

 

[electrofelon]

Not quite. They can subcontract the specialties, or do only two trades if neither of them are framing or carpentry.

From CSLB website:



For a simple residential remodel it's not hard to pile up two trades other than framing. If you've already got drywall and painting then electrical or plumbing is 'free'.

Ok thanks. Such odd rules!

 

[electrofelon]

Why do we have all these requirements for contracting in California ... It's the consumer that have been scammed for years by unlicensed contractors. Please, do not look for loopholes, get the required license(s) for you project.
Let us all come together to identify those who undercut us.

I do have a somewhat different perspective. I grew up and learned the trade in central New York state, where there is no electrical or contract licensing (except for larger cities usually, and a few county wide downstate). I really have never noticed any quality difference or people being screwed here more compared to highly regulated areas. In fact actually probably the opposite due to less choice. My major client in Seattle got totally screwed on this plumbing job by a licensed contractor. I mean it was functional, just a total hack crap job, PEX strong haphazardly everywhere, messy DWV lines run and in the way everywhere just supported by roll-a-holes and scrap pieces of pipe, and unbelievably expensive. We knew several other people who could have done a much higher quality job for a more fair price but they didn't hold the appropriate licenses.

This would be a one-off job, I'm not going to go through a bunch of hoops to get a contractor's license if there's an easier way.