Call-Back on a Service Call

[Little Bill]

I went on a service call today to check a reported problem with no power in half of a living room. When I get there they tell me it "magically" came back on the night before. I ask which wall/receptacles were off and they said the whole room. That was different than what I was told over the phone.
I ask if the breaker had ever tripped but they said it hadn't. I decided to check the breaker anyway and didn't find any problems there other than a little rust/corrosion around the screw terminal, the bus bar looked ok. I then decided to check the receptacles in the room first by using my plug-in tester to see if any were loose or had a bad connection.
I came to one wall that both receptacles were dead. I asked if they were switched receptacles and they were. Actually they were switched by a pair of 3-way switches.
I left the plug-in tester in and went to the switches to try them.
The first one made the tester flicker a little when I switched it but never came on solid.
I then went to the other 3-way and flipped it and the tester lit up. But I found you could push it up a little further and it would go off.
I then pulled both switches off and checked them with my meter. One was completely gone and the other was as I said, would loose contact by pushing the switch a little further. I've never found both 3-ways bad at the same time, but great, simple fix done!
I stayed around a while and fixed another problem they had and checked a few other things. Living room was still working, so I collected my bill and left.

I get a call about an hour later saying "it happened again"! I said the two receptacles quit again? They said no, the whole room.
So I (reluctantly) went back. When I get there everything is on.:?
First thing I did was go to the panel and put a clamp around the wire for the breaker and went back to the room to see if anything starts to dim or flicker. Sat there probably 5 minutes and everything was still on. I ask them if they had a hair dryer or vacuum they could plug in. They plugged in the vacuum and about 30 secs to a minute the lights flickered and then all the power went off.
I go to the panel and the breaker is not tripped but no power either. I got another breaker and put it in. I also checked the neutrals and found about 1/3 of them were loose. Some were not even a little tight (the screw). Not sure if the breaker or neutral or both was the problem. Didn't take time to check each separately.

Long story, but it brings me to the question of should I have charged for the second trip?
I probably should have checked the neutrals the first time but since I found 2 bad switches, I didn't look any further.
I only charged about half of my service call price, including the breaker, for the second trip. The lady that paid me the first time wasn't there and I just told her son to have her mail me the check. He didn't complain and thanked me for coming back so soon, but I have mixed feelings about charging for the return trip.
How would you guys have handled this?

 

[hurk27]

I have learned to always explain if it ant broke when I'm there I can't always find what the problem is, I tell them I can check some normal things but since it is working it might take another trip, how many have taken a car in for a repair only to not have the problem while your there, you can't be expected to look for something that is not broke.

But like you depending upon how long the second trip took, I will also give a break on labor on the second trip, but never on any replaced parts unless I changed them by mistake???

 

[andyselec@aol.com]

They still might be calling you back because it sounds like it might have been a "speed" wire (stab, quick wire) recepticle problem. Hint it is usually the last live outlet where your problem is and usually the one that is used for vacuuming or any other outlet that has things frequently pulled in and out of.

Your original question, I would be hesitaten to charge and right it off as advertising expense because if you didn't charge they will tell all their friends how good, honest, prompt and fair you were about fixing their problem.

 

[Little Bill]

They still might be calling you back because it sounds like it might have been a "speed" wire (stab, quick wire) recepticle problem. Hint it is usually the last live outlet where your problem is and usually the one that is used for vacuuming or any other outlet that has things frequently pulled in and out of.

Your original question, I would be hesitaten to charge and right it off as advertising expense because if you didn't charge they will tell all their friends how good, honest, prompt and fair you were about fixing their problem.

Checked all the receps the first time....no back stabs.

 

[Cow]

We fill out our workorders the following morning when we do our time. Since we don't bill on the spot, the second trip DEFINITELY would have been added to the workorder.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I'm kind of split on this, you did go out once and make some repairs, but and even you said it, you didn't check the wires in the panel.

Whole house not off, probably not even that whole circuit was off, going off then coming back on, almost always an indication of a loose connection.

 

[Loffgren]

RE

RE

They still might be calling you back because it sounds like it might have been a "speed" wire (stab, quick wire) recepticle problem. Hint it is usually the last live outlet where your problem is and usually the one that is used for vacuuming or any other outlet that has things frequently pulled in and out of.

Exactly

 

[G._S._Ohm]

You can check for bad connections with a DVM.
50 mV across a wirenut passing 10A is bad, considerably less drop at that current is probably good. With the 50 mV, one of three conductors was not even scored by the coil spring in the wirenut and these nuts were put on by amateurs.

Also, Ideal makes an analyzer to check house wiring. It's p/n 61-165 or 65-165.

 

[Gold]

Get a megger and use it. On the first trip you could have identified the ckt that was intermittent, megged it and found the problem.

You would also have been able to give the customer a more detailed explanation.
Probably would have appeared more professional
Would have had less need to work on a hot ckt
Believe it or not its actually faster once you get comfortable with it.
Probably would have also found All of the repairs at once as well, once you get your methods down you can meg the entire house in 20 minutes.
We can pretty much diagnose anything in a house now in 20 minutes or less.

 

[north star]

$ $

"They still might be calling you back because it sounds like it might have been a "speed" wire (stab, quick wire)
recepticle problem. Hint, it is usually the last live outlet where your problem is and usually the one that is used for
vacuuming or any other outlet that has things frequently pulled in and out of.

Your original question, I would be hesitant to charge and right it off as advertising expense because if you didn't
charge they will tell all their friends how good, honest, prompt and fair you were about fixing their problem."

FWIW, I concur with **andyselec at aol.com**.......Sounds like this may not
be your last trip to this location, ...plus it is perfectly acceptable to perform
electrical ministry work now and then! :angel:

& &

 

[Flatpad]

Get a megger and use it. On the first trip you could have identified the ckt that was intermittent, megged it and found the problem.

You would also have been able to give the customer a more detailed explanation.
Probably would have appeared more professional
Would have had less need to work on a hot ckt
Believe it or not its actually faster once you get comfortable with it.
Probably would have also found All of the repairs at once as well, once you get your methods down you can meg the entire house in 20 minutes.
We can pretty much diagnose anything in a house now in 20 minutes or less.

I can't agree with that 20 minute thing. It could take 20 minutes just to make sure that every single thing in the house is unplugged or unscrewed or disconnected.

You never know what someone wired up to something else that you would never expect.

 

[John120/240]

I went on a service call today to check a reported problem with no power in half of a living room. When I get there they tell me it "magically" came back on the night before. I ask which wall/receptacles were off and they said the whole room. That was different than what I was told over the phone.
I ask if the breaker had ever tripped but they said it hadn't. I decided to check the breaker anyway and didn't find any problems there other than a little rust/corrosion around the screw terminal, the bus bar looked ok. I then decided to check the receptacles in the room first by using my plug-in tester to see if any were loose or had a bad connection.
I came to one wall that both receptacles were dead. I asked if they were switched receptacles and they were. Actually they were switched by a pair of 3-way switches.
I left the plug-in tester in and went to the switches to try them.
The first one made the tester flicker a little when I switched it but never came on solid.
I then went to the other 3-way and flipped it and the tester lit up. But I found you could push it up a little further and it would go off.
I then pulled both switches off and checked them with my meter. One was completely gone and the other was as I said, would loose contact by pushing the switch a little further. I've never found both 3-ways bad at the same time, but great, simple fix done!
I stayed around a while and fixed another problem they had and checked a few other things. Living room was still working, so I collected my bill and left.

I get a call about an hour later saying "it happened again"! I said the two receptacles quit again? They said no, the whole room.
So I (reluctantly) went back. When I get there everything is on.:?
First thing I did was go to the panel and put a clamp around the wire for the breaker and went back to the room to see if anything starts to dim or flicker. Sat there probably 5 minutes and everything was still on. I ask them if they had a hair dryer or vacuum they could plug in. They plugged in the vacuum and about 30 secs to a minute the lights flickered and then all the power went off.
I go to the panel and the breaker is not tripped but no power either. I got another breaker and put it in. I also checked the neutrals and found about 1/3 of them were loose. Some were not even a little tight (the screw). Not sure if the breaker or neutral or both was the problem. Didn't take time to check each separately.

Long story, but it brings me to the question of should I have charged for the second trip?
I probably should have checked the neutrals the first time but since I found 2 bad switches, I didn't look any further.
I only charged about half of my service call price, including the breaker, for the second trip. The lady that paid me the first time wasn't there and I just told her son to have her mail me the check. He didn't complain and thanked me for coming back so soon, but I have mixed feelings about charging for the return trip.
How would you guys have handled this?

Little Bill you mentioned switched recptacles on a 3 way. Similar situation No power to half hot

recptacles on a 3 way. The switch at one end was used daily. The switch at other end was

frogotten (behind drapes) until the toggle got stuck in the middle. Talk about embarrassed

homeowners "Why I haven't used that switch in years"

 

[kbsparky]

We charge for follow-up service calls, but waive any travel or minimum charges on subsequent visits.

You should be able to collect at least as much as you would have had you stayed there and troubleshot until you found the real culprits. You did find and repair some unrelated problems, so that is billable in any case.

 

[Gold]

The one that vanished about doing them in 20 minutes everyday was legit.

 

[Flatpad]

The one that vanished about doing them in 20 minutes everyday was legit.

You unplug everything in the house, then check a second time. This requires moving just about everything in the house to be sure. Then you remove all light bulbs including attic and crawlspace and the ones outside in the fixtures that need to be opened up, some of which need a ladder to get too. Remove and disconnect every GFCI, including the ones outside of the house in outdoor boxes/covers. Remove and disconnect smoke detectors. Disconnect the furnace. Remove and disconnect motion detection lights. Remove and disconnect every dimmer. Disconnect the door bell transformer. And probably a few other things that I am forgetting.

You do all of that, and THEN you do all the work of actually doing the meggering, and also find the fault- all in 20 minutes, everyday?

 

[Flatpad]

I thought of some more! Disconnect range hood. Remove and disconnect bathroom fans. Disconnect attic fans. Disconnect ceiling fans (sometimes require removal). Disconnect security alarm.

I'll be back in the morning with more

 

[Gold]

Nope, just turn the switches off.

Did you get the link for Mr Holts book before it was removed?

If not I could pm it to you.

 

[Flatpad]

Nope, just turn the switches off.

Did you get the link for Mr Holts book before it was removed?

If not I could pm it to you.

So you're not doing the whole house then?

Turning some switches off doesn't help with many of the things that I mentioned.

I don't know what book you are referring to, but unless it teaches you how to stop time, it's not going to help

 

[Gold]

I don't think I can link to it, it got deleted.

You should try it tho.

Your early by the way.

 

[Flatpad]

I don't think I can link to it, it got deleted.

You should try it tho.

Your early by the way.

I don't really need it.

I have meggered houses, and many other things.

I'm good like that


How about service upgrades, you do them in 45 minutes? 30 second hihat installation? 1 hour new house roughs?