can you use recepticle as splice point

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Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by Minuteman:
My truck's speedometer says 120 mph. I can - if I need to - but I don't do it, 'cause it's not safe. I gotta sleep at night and I don't want to risk MY license.

Hey, the NEC says you can use #14 to wire a house. But, it's been a local code here for ages that the minimum be a #12. Just because it's listed for it, it don't make it right.
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Horrible analogy. Driving 120 mph is illegal and inherently dangerous to the driver and anyone around the vehicle.
Feeding through a receptacle that is tested, listed, and properly installed is not any of the above.

14 vs 12 is another utterly baseless argument.

Show me the body count. :roll:

The fact that you are doing something a particular way because some bureaucracy says it has to be that way does not make it any better than the safe and universally accepted way that has been in use for eons.
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Honestly who here has ever seen a 15 amp tab fail on a 20 amp load.Backstabs not included.
In 32 years I have never seen one fail unless some dumbwit didn`t tighten the screw ;)
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Only in regards to it breaking off the way its supposed to do. The ones I come across as of the last several years seem to me to be getting smaller and harder to grip with the needlenose to pry off.
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

If I was going to bet which would be more likely to fail, a wire nut joint or a feed through tab, my money would be on the wire nut. I have seen many a poor wire nut installation but never a failed feed through tab. :)
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Originally posted by roger:
BTW, have you noticed I have an addmirer kind of like Electricmanscott does? :D

Roger
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Roger you really stink. Only one fan? :D

I have 4 currently and I think another four were deleted. I have been on an ambitious year end recruiting drive. My efforts are working. :D
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What, is this a competition? I didn't know that, I'll have to try harder. :D

Actually I've had more that were removed too. Nah na na nah.

I've noticed a common denominator when the addmirers show up, and I'm not telling. ;)


Roger
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

On the topic at hand, of all the burnt and failed receptacles I have seen, the tab(s) were never a factor.

Roger
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by roger:
What, is this a competition? I didn't know that, I'll have to try harder. :(

Not one fan could I find. ;)


(A note to the extremely uptight, that was a joke.)
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Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Bob, I know you have fans too, and you will be good competition, as a matter of fact you might have been the original hack (I'm not sure :) ) as far as the anonymous admirers go. :D

The competition has tightened up though, Don has entered :eek:

Roger
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Guys,
I don't think that we need to comment about the "admirers". Just ignore them and they will go away.
Don
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

The only trouble with stranded is it makes the tabs on the recpts. just burn up for no reason?
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by benaround:
The only trouble with stranded is it makes the tabs on the recpts. just burn up for no reason?
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:confused:

I don't understand what you mean.

The only reason they would burn up is if it has a loose connection. I prefer a sta-kon, or better yet, a backwire recpetacle, but in a pinch the stranded can be wrapped around the terminal and provide a trouble-free installation.
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

I use only back wired/pressure plate receptacles. I have no problem with using the device for feed thru. The duplex recepts I use are of the $2.00 variety. Some may contend that my practice is too costly to be competetive but compare the time, material and quality of a $2.00 pressure plate recept install with that of a 60 cent recept pigtailed and I think you will find them close. Pigtailing adds to the number of connections in a circuit and in my opinion it adds to the chances of having a poor connection. Do the math. If .01% of made connections in a given installation are defective due to defect in materials and/or human error, which would you rather deal with, .01% of 600 connections or .01% of 1200? I have nothing against pigtailing(always pigtail the neutral in a MW)it's just not my normal practice. Either method is fine as long as it is done correctly. No cheese here.
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Originally posted by Minuteman:
My truck's speedometer says 120 mph. I can - if I need to - but I don't do it, 'cause it's not safe. I gotta sleep at night and I don't want to risk MY license.

Hey, the NEC says you can use #14 to wire a house. But, it's been a local code here for ages that the minimum be a #12. Just because it's listed for it, it don't make it right.
Click to expand...
Horrible analogy. Driving 120 mph is illegal and inherently dangerous to the driver and anyone around the vehicle.
Feeding through a receptacle that is tested, listed, and properly installed is not any of the above.

14 vs 12 is another utterly baseless argument.

Show me the body count. :roll:

The fact that you are doing something a particular way because some bureaucracy says it has to be that way does not make it any better than the safe and universally accepted way that has been in use for eons.
Click to expand...
Show me the body count??? :confused:

How many a million, a thousand. What if it was 20 or less. What's a life worth to you?

Why does the code change every three years. Maybe because there are better/safer ways of doing then than the "universally accepted way that has been in use for eons".

It matters not to me if y'all feed thru or not. It matters not to me if y'all have never witnessed a burnt feed thru tab or not. I could care less if you rope a house with #14 or if you use sta-kons on stranded wire.


THE POINT IS... someone asked if a recep could be used as a junction.

Technical Answer: YES

If you work for me: No!

Have I ever seen it cause problems: To many times.


Do whatever your conscience allows.
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by Minuteman:
Do whatever your conscience allows.
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Oh I got it now, if we do not do it your way we are somehow less professional.

Glad you took the time to clear that up. :roll:
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by iwire:
Originally posted by Minuteman:
Do whatever your conscience allows.
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Oh I got it now, if we do not do it your way we are somehow less professional.

Glad you took the time to clear that up. :roll:
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No Bob, didn't mean that way... just fustrated :mad:

Michael
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Originally posted by Minuteman:
No Bob, didn't mean that way... just fustrated :mad:

Michael
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Well we all have been there so I apologize for jumping on you on that.
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

I have been doing the stranded around the screw with the little bitty insulation left on the end for years now, and have never ever had it been a problem for me, or a go back yet. Boy that was a long sentence, even for me. Now I do remember my vocational school instructor insisting that if we were ever to do this, we should take some solder and tin the end of the wire first. The only time I ever did it was while in the classroom. Out of sheer habit, I will pigtail everthing that is stranded, and of course neutrals for multiwire circuits. When its solid wire it is harder to get everything back in the box and leave enough room for the devices. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Michael

We all have seen problems with burned up terminals on receptacles over the years,
In 30 years I have to say I have never seen a receptacle with just the tab burned. I have seen some real chepo receptacles that the terminals on the outside of the receptacles the screw strip just had a spring contact with the brass contacts on the inside but these would fail even with one set of wires to the receptacle.
But most all receptacles today, the terminal strip and the contacts are made out of one piece and don't have that problem. but if the screw termination was loose and did heat up that heat will travel to the tab. This is not the tabs fault but again a bad connection by a loose terminal. The only way I could see the tab failing is if it was accidentally partly broke out. Aluminum wire was a real problem as the expansion and contraction of the wire would cause a loose terminal. This could be corrected by a spring washer that would allow for this expansion but it came about to late. the trust was never there for aluminum wire ever again. As I said before the problem is the installation. To many installers just do not take the time to tighten the screws properly. Our company too has also made it a rule to pig tail all connections, but this is more because good help is hard to find around here and it solved this problem for us, as well as a few others.
But I will not condemn a UL listed method of using the screws as a splice point because we don't do it that way.
If it done right it works fine, We don't do it because of inconsistency of the workers we get.
Truthfully I have seen more failure from bad contact between the blades of a plug to the contact in the receptacles then with loose screws. In most of these cases, it is where there is a high moisture content in the air, like in the laundry room, or bath rooms, and damp basements.

And my little pun earlier, I was just joking around. It just hit me funny the way you stated it together. :D
 
Re: can you use recepticle as splice point

Wayne

Hey, I have preferred pig tailing for years. I spoke of one specific instance where the fire investigators determined that the cause was the tab. What can I say? There have been other times where the recep was so damaged that I could not say what was the cause.

So based upon my 28 years of experience, I choose not to feed through. (Howbeit, I had to on a repair recently where the outlet was damaged and the box was to tight.)

And... I got the pun. lol
 
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