Ceiling fan boxes

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geochurchi

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Concord,NH
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Retired electrician
Good morning All, what is the requirement for ceiling fan boxes in an existing installation,can an old fan be removed and replaced with a new one without changing the existing box?
Geo
 
geochurchi said:
Good morning All, what is the requirement for ceiling fan boxes in an existing installation,can an old fan be removed and replaced with a new one without changing the existing box?
Geo
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A like for like (or similar) replacement is not required to be inspected in my area nor would anyone even think of getting it inspected.
Having said that, you should do the install as if it would be inspected, but mostly for safety and good workmanship.
So, if the box is not the right one, or is not secured well, you need to either secure it better or replace it with something rated for a fan.
 
IMO, if you replace a fan and the ceiling box is not rated for a fan then it is your obligation to replace the box and bring it up to code. If that fan should fall whose responsibility do you think it will be under?
 
Coppersmith said:
If there is no fan box, isn't the wiring exposed to the (probably wooden) framing member? This doesn't sound code compliant. All wiring is supposed to be in a junction box.
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There is still a jb but the screws to mount the fan go outside the box into a wooden block. The box is therefore not holding the fan so the box doesn't need to be fan rated
 
Dennis Alwon said:
IMO, if you replace a fan and the ceiling box is not rated for a fan then it is your obligation to replace the box and bring it up to code. If that fan should fall whose responsibility do you think it will be under?
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But if you support it independently of the outlet box then there is no need to change the box. (ex. long screws through the fan bracket into a joist)
 
The Op's question is can you install a new fan on an old non-rated fan box, the answer is yes if you can somehow support the fan independently of the box.
 
I don't mean to throw a wrench into things here but a fan rated box utilizes # 10 machine screws that screw into a threaded hub with more than just a few threads . Irrespective of how to support a std. 4" round box, that existing box utilizes # 8 machine screws that screw into the bent in ears of the box that may only have 3-4 threads. I know this is minutae but that's the way the box manufacturers submitted their fan box products to UL
 
ActionDave said:
What do you have against independent support?
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Nothing.... It doen't mean you can't have independent support but you would have to have a fan box.

Why? Because often times inexperienced people will change the fan out and hang it from the box instead of by independent means. If the box was rated for fan use then it wouldn't be an issue
 
A better proposal would be make the use of fan boxes a requirement for all ceiling lighting outlets. BTW although I understand your logic I disagree that the independent support allowance should be removed from the NEC.
 
infinity said:
A better proposal would be make the use of fan boxes a requirement for all ceiling lighting outlets. BTW although I understand your logic I disagree that the independent support allowance should be removed from the NEC.
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I suspect the cmp will disagree also...
 
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