Ceiling Fan Down Rod (Raceway??)

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ActionDave said:
Sure I can, it's part of asembling the fan. That's not anything at all like running conduit and conductors to the fan box on the ceiling.
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But you're not 'just' assembling the fan. You're altering it.

If the rod is to "expressly" run the wires, then what holds the fan up?
 
480sparky said:
But you're not 'just' assembling the fan. You're altering it.

If the rod is to "expressly" run the wires, then what holds the fan up?
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The key to all of this is separating what comes with the fan, and, what we provide to the fan location.

Yes you can install the manufacturer's wiring up the rod because it's part of the assembly.
Yes you can trim those long wires back to make them shorter for the connection since you haven't altered the assembly.

It's when you splice in the rod with material that didn't come with the fan, or, run go to run your own wire down the rod instead of what came with it is when you start getting into issues.

JAP>
 
With that being said,,, I'm only going to Purgatory since I but splice and heat shrink,,, unlike Larry who uses wire nuts and will be residing in the hottest deepest part. :p

JAP>
 
ActionDave said:
And you are doing the same thing when you rewire the fan.

You'd rather rewire the fan I'd rather splice the wires, we're both going to hell for altering a listed item.
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At least we'll have functioning ceiling fans when we get there.
Devil_Emoticon_by_Pitahaya.gif
 
Splicing in a raceway is an issue especially when the raceway is long and you need to pull wires out however, slicing in a short run fan outlet may or may not be a violation- it probably is since it is a listed unit. I have made the splice and I see no possible danger from doing this.
 
Hahaha, that's why I only install 2 stroke paddle fans!
I have done both, replace wire and splice, what else are you going to do; they make brass c condelets?

If I have a remote ballast I can run pipe and lower wire gage than #12. As part of the fixture.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Splicing in a raceway is an issue especially when the raceway is long and you need to pull wires out however, slicing in a short run fan outlet may or may not be a violation- it probably is since it is a listed unit. I have made the splice and I see no possible danger from doing this.
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With all due respect, I doubt seriously the code rule for not being able to splice within a raceway has anything to do with a need for mechanical strength if one were to want to pull the wire out.


JAP>
 
Bill Walker said:
I am a new member to this forum and this is my first question.
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Welcome to the Forum, Bill. :)

Bill Walker said:
In certain cases the height of a ceiling requires the fan to use a longer downrod than was originally supplied with the fan. . . . I guess my basic question is, is the downrod considered a raceway?
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Great question. To keep this straight in my head, I have to go back to a few Article 100 Definitions.

All my Code references are from the 2017 NEC.

A Paddlefan may, or may not have a light kit. I want to start with a light / paddlefan. Overall, the assembly is a Luminaire and is attached at a Lighting Outlet on the Premises Wiring (System).

Premises Wiring (System) takes pains to state that "the wiring internal to Luminaires" is not part of the Premises Wiring (System).

The Premises Wiring (System) ends at the Lighting Outlet, an outlet intended for the direct connection of a . . . luminaire.

A Luminaire is:
"A complete lighting unit consisting of a light source such as a lamp or lamps together with the parts designed to position the light source and connect it to the power supply. It may also include parts to protect the light source or the ballast or to distribute the light. A lampholder itself is not a luminaire."
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Looking at Article 410 Luminaires, Lamphoders and Lamps, we find a couple things.

Part VI Wiring of Luminaires of Article 410 includes:

410.56 Protection of Conductors and Insulation
410.56(C) Luminaire Stems. Splices and taps shall not be located within luminaire arms or stems.
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410.64 Luminaires as Raceways. Luminaires shall not be used as raceways unless they comply with 410.64(A), 410.64(B) or 410.64(C).
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jap said:
With all due respect, I doubt seriously the code rule for not being able to splice within a raceway has anything to do with a need for mechanical strength if one were to want to pull the wire out.


JAP>
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Well, it has to do with the failure due to the splice being installed under tension. Also a double splice- which I have seen leaves wire inside the conduit that cannot be removed. We had to use a backhoe to pull the wires out at a stone crushing plant. Fortunately, there was only one set of splices--
 
Usually the fans have a section where the downrod is connected that is large enough an area to make the splices... you are usually only splicing three wires... sometimes the ground as well, but not always... and it is usually very small wires.. I think it is the orange wire nuts...
so I usually splice there if I need to splice but last bunch of fans I installed had like two feet of cable after putting the long downrod on them.
 
410.56 Protection of Conductors and Insulation

410.56(C) Luminaire Stems. Splices and taps shall not be located within luminaire arms or stems.
410.64 Luminaires as Raceways. Luminaires shall not be used as raceways unless they comply with 410.64(A), 410.64(B) or 410.64(C).
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I think 410.56(C) says it all.

-Hal
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Well, it has to do with the failure due to the splice being installed under tension. Also a double splice- which I have seen leaves wire inside the conduit that cannot be removed. We had to use a backhoe to pull the wires out at a stone crushing plant. Fortunately, there was only one set of splices--
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I don't think the rule has anything to do with splices failing under tension or binding up inside the conduit.

Not allowing a splice inside of a raceway such as a conduit would have more to do with the fact that it renders the connection inaccessible more so than it would be a worry about a connection or failure issue.


JAP>
 
Now, to open a new can of worms. Would it be permissible to run 18ga TFFN fixture wire down the down rod instead of full size conductors sized for the branch circuit?

I guess what it amounts to is- is the down rod part of the fixture and are you extending the fixture wiring or are you bringing the branch circuit wiring down to the fixture? Consider a shorter down rod where the included small gauge fixture wire is of sufficient length. :cool:

-Hal
 
Adamjamma said:
Usually the fans have a section where the downrod is connected that is large enough an area to make the splices...
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I have never seen that with the hundreds of fans I have installed; they pass through the center of the motor and terminate in the switch compartment where the light kit mounts.
 
hbiss said:
is the down rod part of the fixture and are you extending the fixture wiring or are you bringing the branch circuit wiring down to the fixture?
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Note the red highlights in my quote of the definition of Luminaire. The stem (downrod) is positioning the light source, therefore it's part of the Luminaire. NEC 410.52 Informational Note reminds us to go to Article 402 for ampacity. 402.6 stands out. . . 18 ga.
 
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