ceiling fan priceing

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The company I left used to give us a yearly breakout of what we cost them an hour. Three years ago it was in the ballpark of $48/ hr. I just did a service call this morning that paid me from the time I left my house, did the running around for the job, collected the check, made around $130/ HR and got a hug from the nice old lady. Was referred to her by another good paying customer. Gave her 2 business cards before I left and she said she would definately refer me. There was no reason to work for free. I have paperwork stuff to do associated with being in business today, along with running another call. Have another truck that was on the road today making me money. Was told by the small business developement center that 80% of small businesses fail in the 1st year, 80% of what's left fail in the first 5 years, 80% of what's left fail in 10. I'd like to own 1 of the nice houses that are built in my area and afford the car I want to drive. Why should other people be the 1's living in those houses and not me? Because I'm an electrical contractor and have to work for cheap? My son may need to go to college in 6 years @ todays rates is $9000 a year. Wont be able to afford these things without getting paid a fair amount for my knowledge and ability. I am taking my girlfriend to the poconos to 1 of the top 10 country inns in the US for the weekend Friday though.

Steve
 
As many an electrician has, I always did side work and I've always worked for somebody. (I didn't get my contractors license until after I became an inspector). The reason I've always worked for somebody is the same reason you're in a bad mood today, I never have to chase the bad check or the non-payment. When I was only making $30,000 a year I was probably making another $15,000 on the side, permits were always pulled by the contractor or homeowner and I was turning work away. I used to take vacations so that I could do side jobs. I used to work an average of 16 hours a day. I once changed a light fixture at a company (the original contractor they called said it was to small of a job) and I spent the next two years there, bought a house and a new truck because of that job. I once did so much work on one street that I got recommended to the original guy I worked for.


Guess I'm in a mood too (had 12 checks to my Little League come back so not only did I lose that $1200 dollars, I lost the cost of uniforms, insurance and bounced check fees and have a $10,000 difference in the books and the account and I have several hundred people I have to answer to for that). I know it's a tough life and that's why I don't do it. I get paid every two weeks and I don't even have to ask.

Good customer service goes a long, long ways.

By the way everyone in case I forget, have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
 
cowboyjwc said:
As many an electrician has, I always did side work and I've always worked for somebody. (I didn't get my contractors license until after I became an inspector). The reason I've always worked for somebody is the same reason you're in a bad mood today, I never have to chase the bad check or the non-payment. When I was only making $30,000 a year I was probably making another $15,000 on the side, permits were always pulled by the contractor or homeowner and I was turning work away. I used to take vacations so that I could do side jobs. I used to work an average of 16 hours a day. I once changed a light fixture at a company (the original contractor they called said it was to small of a job) and I spent the next two years there, bought a house and a new truck because of that job. I once did so much work on one street that I got recommended to the original guy I worked for.

Good customer service goes a long, long ways.
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This all sounds very good. I commend you on your work ethic but other than the short period when you were a legitimate contractor ( 07/23/90 to 10/31/92 ). I believe you were running an illegal business.

They say that crime pays but this forum is supposed to be about how to run a legal business venture.

Unless many of these young guys become electrical inspectors they may be caught doing unlicensed side jobs. To quote prices for side jobs will never be the same as for legitimate business operations.

Subing electrical work from an electrical contractor requires a contractors license. Homeowner permits ( in most areas ) require that the homeowner actually do the work and not hire an unlicensed electrician ( no matter how cheap ). I know that it's done but still against the rules.

By the way I like to use licensed and bonded thugs ( the police ).
 
that being said, cowboy please resign from being an inspector immediately, you are not morally or ethically equipped to do this. One of the inspectors jobs is to look out for legitimate contractors. To inspect work and make sure it is done legally.

Your post shows that if you crack down on unlicensed (or even licensed guys, but with no business permit) moonlighters you are a hippocrate. If you don't come down on them, you are damaging the good, legal, legitimate contractors.

In my opinion, based on your post, you have done more to damage this industry already, than you will ever do to help the industry in the future. But that's just my opinion.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I was probably making another $15,000 on the side....
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No mention of WC, UI, any sort of taxes...etc.

If I wanted to, I could "make" that money easily ...and as an added burden to society, I would also file for food stamps and whatever other programs the suckers who pay taxes finance.


I am in agreement with emahler's sentiments.
 
Dnkldorf said:
LOL,

Bob, you amazed again?
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LOL...i know, it's criminal to make money doing this....i agree with Celtic...I'm going to $45/hr, get all the work, all cash and file for welfare and medicare.
 
emahler said:
...i agree with Celtic...I'm going to $45/hr, get all the work, all cash and file for welfare and medicare.
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Screw you...I'm going to come in at $39.99 and cut your throat.

j/k ;)


This is a very unhealthy mentailty for ECs to consider....
 
Dnkldorf said:
LOL,

Bob, you amazed again?
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Bob, don't delete this, it won't get bad...

Dnk, you follow me around like a lost puppy dog...here's the deal....go through any of my posts on any board...find any serious post of mine that advocates anything other than contractors building a better financial picture for their company. Find one post that advocates anything other than contractors becoming better business men/women and realizing that they are worth more money than they think. Find one post that advocates that we don't do the best job for the highest price we can get.

Find one post where I advocate doing anything detrimental to the company, the contractor or his employees.

I advocate creating better businesses to create better lives. So guys like cowboy can be paid enough money (with the proper benes) in a 40 hour week working for their boss, that they don't have to work another 40 hours moonlighting and cutting the price of legitimate, legal contractors.

That's my postition...what's yours?
 
celtic said:
Screw you...I'm going to come in at $39.99 and cut your throat.

j/k ;)


This is a very unhealthy mentailty for ECs to consider....
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sale this week only....$38.99....we beat any price...:) i'll get all the work and be rich, rich I say...

it's ludacris that guys are against making money...i don't get it...
 
LOL...you're killin' me here.

I was talking to a guy that works for another EC. The topic of "sidework" came up....I laughed in this man's face when he told me how "much" he charges. This man (although working for an EC) IS a licensed EC with all the proper papers. Basically, he was working (sidework)for LESS than he was being paid from the EC. That's smart!
 
celtic said:
LOL...you're killin' me here.

I was talking to a guy that works for another EC. The topic of "sidework" came up....I laughed in this man's face when he told me how "much" he charges. This man (although working for an EC) IS a licensed EC with all the proper papers. Basically, he was working (sidework)for LESS than he was being paid from the EC. That's smart!
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but he's making it up on volume!

I just wish guys would realize that you should be able to make a good living in 40 hrs....why cut your own throats and make yourself work 80?
 
celtic said:
LOL...you're killin' me here.

I was talking to a guy that works for another EC. The topic of "sidework" came up....I laughed in this man's face when he told me how "much" he charges. This man (although working for an EC) IS a licensed EC with all the proper papers. Basically, he was working (sidework)for LESS than he was being paid from the EC. That's smart!
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and making it that much more difficult for his boss to charge enough money to pay his salary, taxes, benefits, etc.
 
celt,

we are joking here, but it's an actual mindset for too many "contractors"

most guys I know won't do residential, or won't do specific things like hang ceiling fans, because "there's not enough money in it"

Well, my question is "why not?" Figure out your costs, and charge it. If you get the job you make money, if you don't get the job, oh well.

When we stop looking at eachother as "the enemy" and start talking and relating, we will all be better off. But some guys are incapable of looking at other contractors as 'friendly competition' and instead want to beat them up, make them look bad, talk about how expensive they are, what rip offs they are, etc.

I took another look at some real numbers....based on Cowboys assumption that as a 1 man shop, you can make alot of money at $50/hr...here are actual costs

health insurance $7/hr
truck w/ insurance $800/month-$40/day (20 day work month) - $5/hr
gas - approx $1/hr
phone - apprx $1/hr

I'm already down to $36/hr and we haven't touched
liability insurance
payroll taxes
advertising - this one is usually not done by $50/hr contractors

pretty soon, I'm making $10/hr take home. and that's without giving any freebies...

So, yeah there is no way i can do a fan for $100...I'd best sell my ass off when I get in that door and let the customer know about things that they didn't even know exisited.

but that's just my take. However, if moonlighting, none of this applies because someone else is paying your freight...something inherently wrong with that...
 
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emahler said:
most guys I know won't do residential, or won't do specific things like hang ceiling fans, because "there's not enough money in it".
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I would like to jump in with an opinion. The reason that some contractors don't do small jobs is because they are not set up to do small jobs. If your vehicles are set up for a specific kind of work it's hard to switch over.

Even when you go out to install a fan you often end up with more work. Customer wants a couple of white GFCI receptacles in the kitchen and a smoke detector needs replaced ( Example ). If you don't have these stocked on the service vehicle then you start getting to much time on the job. If you do have these items then you can pick up some easy money but you don't know what they are going to ask for so you have to be stocked for residential.
 
emahler said:
I'm already down to $36/hr and we haven't touched
liability insurance
payroll taxes
advertising - this one is usually not done by $50/hr contractors

pretty soon, I'm making $10/hr take home. and that's without giving any freebies...
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Maybe it's me, but if liability insurance, payroll taxes, and advertising are more than 50% of your costs, you might have some problems..

Eric, depending on alot of factors, 50 hr, can be extemely profittable, just maybe not to you.

Your dad's cost of doing business will greatly vary from cowboys cost of doing business. Even your dad's cost of employees will vary from everyone elses. Not every ones business model is built like your dads.

There is no "one size fits all.

I'll refer you back to contractor A VS contractor B.



There is nothing wrong with attempting to help out contractors, but when you feel the need to publicly slam, or degrade, let alone tell someone that he should resign, or he is causing damage to an industry, you might want to take a deeper look inside yourself.
 
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