quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
I never did see your cars were the three of you on horses at Mohegan???? Was the white hair discription the horse or the rider. :wink:
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CFL Safety Poll
- Thread starter mxslick
- Start date
- Status
I never did see your cars were the three of you on horses at Mohegan???? Was the white hair discription the horse or the rider. :wink:
Results so far..keep the votes coming!!
Results so far..keep the votes coming!!
Bumping this up and updating the tally as of today, 01 Jun 2009:
Of the 30 total votes logged so far:
5 voters (including my initial wrong vote) choose the burning bulb. That's 16.67% of the votes;
16 voters would choose the non-burning bulb (53.33%);
4 voters (NOT including me) would re-buy the cheaper bulb despite issues, that's 13.33% ;
23 voters would buy the more expensive bulb for peace of mind (76.67%) !
Keep the votes coming folks!!
Sorry Bob and Laszlo, but despite our differences of opinion on the wording of the survey, the majority of the votes seem to agree with my position on this topic.
Results so far..keep the votes coming!!
Bumping this up and updating the tally as of today, 01 Jun 2009:
Of the 30 total votes logged so far:
5 voters (including my initial wrong vote) choose the burning bulb. That's 16.67% of the votes;
16 voters would choose the non-burning bulb (53.33%);
4 voters (NOT including me) would re-buy the cheaper bulb despite issues, that's 13.33% ;
23 voters would buy the more expensive bulb for peace of mind (76.67%) !
Keep the votes coming folks!!
Sorry Bob and Laszlo, but despite our differences of opinion on the wording of the survey, the majority of the votes seem to agree with my position on this topic.
weressl
Esteemed Member
Bumping this up and updating the tally as of today, 01 Jun 2009:
Of the 30 total votes logged so far:
5 voters (including my initial wrong vote) choose the burning bulb. That's 16.67% of the votes;
16 voters would choose the non-burning bulb (53.33%);
4 voters (NOT including me) would re-buy the cheaper bulb despite issues, that's 13.33% ;
23 voters would buy the more expensive bulb for peace of mind (76.67%) !
Keep the votes coming folks!!
Sorry Bob and Laszlo, but despite our differences of opinion on the wording of the survey, the majority of the votes seem to agree with my position on this topic.
Wrong.
Not despite but BECAUSE of your slanted wording are you producing such results.
What you actually making people say, without them realizing it, that: I will spend more money without really caring if I understand whether I get any value for my money or not. Talk about snake oil salesmanship!
But hey, each of us choose to be proud of different accomplishments. This is a sorry one.....IMO.
Wrong.
Not despite but BECAUSE of your slanted wording are you producing such results.
What you actually making people say, without them realizing it, that: I will spend more money without really caring if I understand whether I get any value for my money or not. Talk about snake oil salesmanship!
But hey, each of us choose to be proud of different accomplishments. This is a sorry one.....IMO.
Nope, I'm RIGHT and you sir are wrong.
So how about this idea: instead of wasting our time grumping about how skewed the wording of my poll is, why don't you start a thread with a poll worded the way YOU think it should be and we'll see if the results change to match your warped perception of reality? :roll:
Sheeesh.
weressl
Esteemed Member
Do you recognize that regardless how often you restate that 'I am right', it does not change reality, just reinforces your inablity to objectively view the issue. If you are right, why don't you take UL to court with a class action suit. I am sure if you're right you would retire as a millionaire.
Or are you describing to the Goebbels doctrine or propaganda?
Do you recognize that regardless how often you restate that 'I am right', it does not change reality, just reinforces your inablity to objectively view the issue. If you are right, why don't you take UL to court with a class action suit. I am sure if you're right you would retire as a millionaire.
Or are you describing to the Goebbels doctrine or propaganda?
Oh, I have no problem viewing this objectively, and from the poll results it seems a lot of others understand it as well. You're the one seemingly stuck to your own view of the situation and unable to see the light so to speak.
Ironic considering your own signature line: "Just because it works it doesn't mean its right!"
That, in a nutshell, describes how I feel about this end-of-life issue with CFL's.
One thing I need to say here and didn't bring up earlier in response to something Laszlo alluded to in regards to wording of the poll:
If you were to READ the RULES in regards to polls, (accessed on the poll creation page) there is a limitation on length of wording for each poll option, so I set this up within those guidelines. I DO agree that it does make the response list look more concrete with little leeway in each option. Which COULD be construed as being biased.
The reality is that ANY poll or survey can easily be taken as biased depending on one's point of view. And no matter how many words you use, people WILL vote for whatever they believe is the closest response to their own viewpoint.
"Or are you describing to the Goebbels doctrine or propaganda?"
That would be subscribing.
Correcting spelling errors here and on other forums could be a full time job with no reward.
If a post can be understood even if the poster uses "there" rather "their" it isn't a big deal.
Sometimes the odd incorrect spelling or typo can be amusing though.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
At the request of mxslick, I'm here. Yay!
The failed CFL I saw was on a maintenance call when I worked for a fairly large (248 room) hotel. The body was scorched in one spot like someone had taken a torch to it. The plastic had not just melted but had begun burning, leaving an incredibly awful stench behind that caused mgmt to move that guest from their room. The lingering smell generated a half-dozen or so complaints from other guests about an electrical odor.
That said, it was one bulb out of thousands in the building (the place probably had 15k total bulbs installed, 1k or so of which were CFLs).
CFLs are generally safe, provided they are installed in correct fixtures and by the label (and you don't break one). Pulling a Sylvania CF13EL out of a lamp fixture in my house, I see the following caution:
"Risk of electric shock-use in dry location only. Do not use where directly exposed to water. Not for use in totally enclosed recessed fixtures. Not for use when exposed to the weather. Not for use with dimmers."
The higher end CFLs generally last longer than the cheapies. The Panasonic CFLs in the lobby of that building stayed lit 24/7, and after two years (17,500 hours), only one had burned out - they weren't new when I got there. As for catastrophic EOL failures, I do not have enough evidence to say that there is more of a danger from cheaper CFLs.
"Just because it works it doesn't mean its right!" Very true. 12 100W incandescents on a 600W dimmer *will* work, right up until the maintenance guy gets second degree burns on his hand by touching the self-destructing dimmer. Story for another thread I suppose...
To answer the poll question, I picked #2, noting that higher price doesn't always equal higher quality or safety. Those Panasonics sure were nice, but IIRC they were about $20 a piece retail. Anything made in China is a craps shoot imo.
I'm not sure if it was touched on here, but imo CFLs are safer than incandescents because it's almost impossible to overlamp with them. I've lost count of the number of 100W bulbs I've yanked from fixtures rated for no more than a 60W bulb. istm that few homeowners or businesses pay attention to those little warning stickers on luminairs.
The failed CFL I saw was on a maintenance call when I worked for a fairly large (248 room) hotel. The body was scorched in one spot like someone had taken a torch to it. The plastic had not just melted but had begun burning, leaving an incredibly awful stench behind that caused mgmt to move that guest from their room. The lingering smell generated a half-dozen or so complaints from other guests about an electrical odor.
That said, it was one bulb out of thousands in the building (the place probably had 15k total bulbs installed, 1k or so of which were CFLs).
CFLs are generally safe, provided they are installed in correct fixtures and by the label (and you don't break one). Pulling a Sylvania CF13EL out of a lamp fixture in my house, I see the following caution:
"Risk of electric shock-use in dry location only. Do not use where directly exposed to water. Not for use in totally enclosed recessed fixtures. Not for use when exposed to the weather. Not for use with dimmers."
The higher end CFLs generally last longer than the cheapies. The Panasonic CFLs in the lobby of that building stayed lit 24/7, and after two years (17,500 hours), only one had burned out - they weren't new when I got there. As for catastrophic EOL failures, I do not have enough evidence to say that there is more of a danger from cheaper CFLs.
"Just because it works it doesn't mean its right!" Very true. 12 100W incandescents on a 600W dimmer *will* work, right up until the maintenance guy gets second degree burns on his hand by touching the self-destructing dimmer. Story for another thread I suppose...
To answer the poll question, I picked #2, noting that higher price doesn't always equal higher quality or safety. Those Panasonics sure were nice, but IIRC they were about $20 a piece retail. Anything made in China is a craps shoot imo.
I'm not sure if it was touched on here, but imo CFLs are safer than incandescents because it's almost impossible to overlamp with them. I've lost count of the number of 100W bulbs I've yanked from fixtures rated for no more than a 60W bulb. istm that few homeowners or businesses pay attention to those little warning stickers on luminairs.
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LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Some of the errors can be amusing in their, there, they're own write, rite, right. Maybe anything is allowed aloud.
weressl
Esteemed Member
The fact will not change that none of your arguments contain an objective facts, nor do you even ofer any substanbtiation to your agruments. This will remain so, regardless how many times you say it otherwise. "You are the ONE" is grossly inaccurate when 4:1 of the answers testify otherwise, there are 10 more besides of me. IMO those are the ones who taken the time not to be swayed by the slanted poll but actually investigate and examine the issue.
Just because you say it is so, does not make it so.
It is not CONSTRUED to be biased, it is biased. A technical issue should be decided based on facts and technical merits. Let me demostrate the failure of the poll:
- It uses emotionaly loaded words, such as: 'cheaper' 'burns' 'smoke' 'piece of mind'. Each of these are aimed at steering the response toward a desired answer.
- It does not present a single fact:
- namely that the product is UL approved,
- that the failure signatures - represented by the emotionally loaded words - are described and recognized by UL as aceptable and safe signs of the 'end-of-life' of the product,
- that some of the described failures may have occured to products that were either not UL approved or the UL label was fraudulently attached,
- there is no sense of proportion as to how many of these 'alarming' failures occur compared to uneventful failures.
However.
I had long ago discovered that God got the job I wanted, and also that He does a pretty good job at it without my intereference or advice. I also discovered that there are miriads of people and organizations exist who are trained, came into existence and vested with various tasks, responsibilities that I do not have to worry about. It is like laws. I don't have to like them, just live by them. It is a social construct how we can co-exist in a society. The rule of UL is such. They are vested with the responsibility to assure equipment safety and/or functionality. In this case it is documented that they are aware of what you PERCIEVE as a safety issue, and deemed it not to be. I'll let them do their job.
"Or are you describing to the Goebbels doctrine or propaganda?"
That would be subscribing.
Only newbies make corrections, especially where you're demonstrating that you have clearly understood the context and intent.:roll:
More curious about your silence in response to my invitation to make yourself a millionaire. Are you gonna put your money where your mouth is?
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- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Way off topic from original post. Getting too close to personal attacks.
- Status