- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Most fuse manufacturers now offer 800A frame size Class L fuses with ratings as low as 400A. I don't know when this started, maybe just the past few years, but I do know they exist.
Cha Ching
- Thread starter muckusmc
- Start date
- Status
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Clearly...something changed between the fire and rebirth ~ which would require an ESI be performed...
Q: Where is the paper trail to the ESI?
A: Lost
Somethings going to have to give...and it probably won't be the POCO.
They have given you an option...what is the EE's position?
Cold Fusion
Senior Member
- Location
- way north
Uhhhh --- Most every day of this forum?:grin::grin:
cf
mayanees
Senior Member
- Location
- Westminster, MD
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer and Master Electrician
Agreed.
Speaking as an engineer, I think it's my responsibility to determine the available power options and incorporate that into the design. Whether it's single or 3-phase, 3-wire, or 4-wire, POCO available voltages....
When is it proper to tell the educated engineer that he's clueless?? As soon as you see it! That's where they/we/I learn.
John M
muckusmc
Senior Member
- Location
- Roebling, NJ
But what is one to do when the engineer totally disregards what your pointing out and insist that your wrong. Then tells you that, unless you install as per his specs, he will refuse to sign off on the project?
- Location
- Massachusetts
It is great planing when the service size could be increased at some point in the future.
In the OPs case from the power company's perspective there is no point in the future that the service size could be increased from 600 to 800 amps single phase so I can understand the power company's reluctance to accept an 800 amp switch.
cow said:
That is exactly how I see it.
Sometimes gaining experience is painful.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
I've heard this before POCO maxes single phase at 600 amps. If the EE normally works in this juridiction then I would think it's really his problem He is the educated person.
I really am getting tired of the Educated person EE who is authorized to place his stamp on the print blaming the EC contractor who usually has not been as highly educated and cannot place a stamp certify them as legitimate.
I really am getting tired of the Educated person EE who is authorized to place his stamp on the print blaming the EC contractor who usually has not been as highly educated and cannot place a stamp certify them as legitimate.
- Location
- Massachusetts
So an EC is stupid and should not recognize the unusual?
I think I feel insulted.:-?
I think I feel insulted.:-?
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
I did not say we EC are stupid. I am just getting tired of the higher educated not taking responsiblity for their actions.
In most areas EC cannot stamp plans. The whole purpose of that stamp is to attest that plan was properly designed by a licensed EE.
The EE makes the error and the EC pays the price. The EE still gets paid by the owner.
mayanees
Senior Member
- Location
- Westminster, MD
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer and Master Electrician
muckusmc,
At that point if I were the EC I would document your difference in opinion, and copy folks associated with the job, including the POCO.
Depending on the construction process that might take the form of a Request for Information. Or if it's more informal, perhaps an email to all parties concerned.
You could also file a complaint with the Engineering License Board for the State in which the job is being installed. I'm on the DE Association of Professional Engineer's Law Enforcement and Ethics committee and if an electrician (anyone) were to file a complaint against an engineer for any reason, the complaint would be promptly investigated and all parties may be contacted for resolution. Hopefully it wouldn't come to that, but if the engineer were incompetent and unwilling to discuss the situation, there's always that complaint option.
I know from my experience that a good engineer maintains working relationships with all parties involved to avoid problems.. from EC to POCO to GC to plumber to carpenter.....and on and on...
Good Luck!
John M
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
The way I see it is that you agreed to supply something a third party won't let you supply.
I don't see how the engineer can be blamed alone if you agreed to it. It seems like it is something that can be done, just not at this location.
If the load calcs require 800A, I don't see that changing it to 600A solves anything.
I think a conference call between yourself, the POCO, and the engineer is in order.
I don't see how the engineer can be blamed alone if you agreed to it. It seems like it is something that can be done, just not at this location.
If the load calcs require 800A, I don't see that changing it to 600A solves anything.
I think a conference call between yourself, the POCO, and the engineer is in order.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I have done enough jobs to know engineers make mistakes, I also know that ECs do as well and they are also licensed professionals.
No matter how well trained or educated anyone is they can and will make mistakes.
Hopefully the EE in this case will share the responsibility with the EC and work out a solution.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Yea, an estimator has time to review and check the engineers work on every job they take off
I know mistakes can be made, but holding the EC responsible for what engineer does is putting the blame on the wrong party. It is a service to the engineer if the EC does find a problem and brings it to their attention. The EC's job ONCE they have the contract is to coordinate the installation of the electrical equipment, if their is a design issue, they coordinate with the engineer for a solution. If the EC redesigns something without the engineers approval, the lawyers will be more than happy to point it out if something goes wrong.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
The reason I felt " let the EE hang (figuratively) on this one because the EC spoke with the EE and he emphatically said do it the way I drew it"
If have been in this situation before. The EE needs to be on the hook for it. I recenty had a EE knowingly provide false load calcs in order to fall within a 100 a service. When I called him on it he just re-ran the numbers and left out the AC units. When I called him on that he added the condesers and left out the FAU's . I went round an round with him on this. I finally had to hire my own EE and back-charge the owner.!
Just to keep it a hundred amp service????? Seems like thousands of dollars spent to save a hundred bucks.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
Well the cost to pull in new service the owner a corporate chain was unwilling to upgrade service. 110 feet no extra meters larger than 100 at the MSB.
The problem that drove the calc up was the footage of track. And
of course the 3 AC units. long and continuous loads.
I always try to coordinate my designs with the POCO. But they always change their minds as soon as construction is ready to start.
So I put a note on my drawings for the contractor to coordinate with the utility before starting construction.
But in this case I have to agree that if the contractor asked, and the engineer said "do it my way", that the blame lies with the engineer.
So I put a note on my drawings for the contractor to coordinate with the utility before starting construction.
But in this case I have to agree that if the contractor asked, and the engineer said "do it my way", that the blame lies with the engineer.
I do the same thing with my drawings. But I like going a step further. Putting the contact name and number of the POCO/Telephone/Cable TV representative on the drawings as well for coordination.
- Status