Challenging an Electrical Inspector

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chris1971 said:
How many have ever challenged an electrical inspectors interpretation of the NEC? Seems like I've read a lot of threads stating the "electrical inspector told me its a code violation ".
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Our inspectors are still peeling the plastic wrappers off their new 2015 IRC books, so there may be challenges to come...but:

I have a very simple policy of always being on site for inspections, and calling the inspectors' attention to anything I think is a judgement call before they find it. So I've made my argument for why I did it that way (almost always a site constraint) beforehand. No challenge, we might have a healthy discussion about the general topic but I get my approval.

One of my inspectors called me a freak once because I'm the only one around here who guides them straight to the potential code violations first. But you know, it really works if you can do it. And I can, because I'm just a 2-bit resi who doesn't get embroiled in the big dollar stuff some of you have to deal with.
 
AHJ Challenge

AHJ Challenge

chris1971 said:
How many have ever challenged an electrical inspectors interpretation of the NEC? Seems like I've read a lot of threads stating the "electrical inspector told me its a code violation ". It appears a fair amount of people take the electrical inspectors word and don't challenge them on it being accurate or correct. I say ask the electrical inspector for a code reference. Have them back up the statements they are telling you.
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Hi Chris,
I am with you on approaching the AHJ tags by starting with a low key question. Wise men have taught me sage advice that has been 99% effective over the last four decades. The well learned advice is being quoted from a recent construction trade book appropriately titled 'ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION New Codes...Advanced Methods' as follows:
1. The important part of an inspection is being there for buyoff agreement with an inspector.
2. The best approach is to ask for the Article Code number for correction compliance.
3. Have the approved plan specs and code book with you that supports the installation.
4. Negotiate a correction agreement for a buyoff to maintain the project work progress.
5. Retain a copy of the violation write-up. (Especially if a shutdown halts project work.)
6. Submit a change order to the prime contractor if plans are non-compliant to code.
7. Should code interpretation be conflicted, appeal with proof to the AHJ review board.
8. Always be thankful. Respectfully, rbj.
 
gndrod said:
Hi Chris,
I am with you on approaching the AHJ tags by starting with a low key question. Wise men have taught me sage advice that has been 99% effective over the last four decades. The well learned advice is being quoted from a recent construction trade book appropriately titled 'ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION New Codes...Advanced Methods' as follows:
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1. The important part of an inspection is being there for buyoff agreement with an inspector I agree being there is important, maybe not so much with the "buyoff" though, if you corrected someone that was simply wrong did you buy them off or did you just correct their error?
2. The best approach is to ask for the Article Code number for correction compliance.
Also agree, many jurisdictions they must cite what was violated anyway if they are going to force you to make a change.
3. Have the approved plan specs and code book with you that supports the installation.
Not all places or all projects require plans approval, having a code book available if there is something you wish to debate is a good idea though.
4. Negotiate a correction agreement for a buyoff to maintain the project work progress.
I still don't like the term "buyoff", sounds like you are trying to get away with something, you may possibly negotiate some things that are not exactly black and white in the code though, but you need to read and discuss the applicable code sections and come to a mutal agreement, the wording here sounds like buying your way out of something you know is wrong.
5. Retain a copy of the violation write-up. (Especially if a shutdown halts project work.)
Yes.
6. Submit a change order to the prime contractor if plans are non-compliant to code.
Better yet know your codes and address problems you see in the plans before you ever get failed on them, if it is something that would impact a bid then by all means get reimbursed for it.
7. Should code interpretation be conflicted, appeal with proof to the AHJ review board.
Yes.
8. Always be thankful.
Yes.

Just my $.02 worth.
 
temp pole grounding

temp pole grounding

I've got one for the books.
I did a temp pole recently so the spray foam guys could do their work( no generators were available because of Irma).
Did a completely code compliant install. Inspector fails me because the panel is grounded, not the weatherhead. I say the panel is one of the three locations in the code allowed to be grounded. He says in Clinton it has to be at weatherhead.
Ok, where is it written?
It's not.
Hmm.
Now he's set the job back a couple of weeks.
I think i'll make up a new rule: inspectors need to pay me $50 for the privilege of coming on my site.
 
Let's not turn this into a hate inspectors thread. There are many bad inspectors, for sure but there are a ton of good ones. This thread is about how to approach an inspector when you disagree with them. It is a hard task especially because there are many personalities. I come across rough but that's my New Yorker in me plus I am straight to the point and I don't sugar coat but that is not always the best plan of action.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Let's not turn this into a hate inspectors thread. There are many bad inspectors, for sure but there are a ton of good ones. This thread is about how to approach an inspector when you disagree with them. It is a hard task especially because there are many personalities. I come across rough but that's my New Yorker in me plus I am straight to the point and I don't sugar coat but that is not always the best plan of action.
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+1. Inspectors are people, too, and they have their own sets of foibles just like the rest of us. Being confrontational or abusive when you don't see eye to eye with an inspector rarely ends well, especially if you have a continuing relationship with the inspector.
 
ggunn said:
+1. Inspectors are people, too, and they have their own sets of foibles just like the rest of us. Being confrontational or abusive when you don't see eye to eye with an inspector never ends well, especially if you have a continuing relationship with the inspector.
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FIFY.

I've only dealt with one like that, and it didn't end well.... for the owner. Not fair he had to eat 3 days of rework for a compliant install, not fair I had to do it, but the alternative was holding up the insulation and drywall crews and possibly still losing our argument. A few grand on a large commercial project is chump change compared to delaying multiple trades by weeks.

The guy was a fire marshal, and let savage framing errors by, but I think he wanted that building to withstand a 6 hour metal fire. Ridiculous the stuff we had to redo to get passed.
 
JFletcher said:
FIFY.

I've only dealt with one like that, and it didn't end well.... for the owner. Not fair he had to eat 3 days of rework for a compliant install, not fair I had to do it, but the alternative was holding up the insulation and drywall crews and possibly still losing our argument. A few grand on a large commercial project is chump change compared to delaying multiple trades by weeks.

The guy was a fire marshal, and let savage framing errors by, but I think he wanted that building to withstand a 6 hour metal fire. Ridiculous the stuff we had to redo to get passed.
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You must pick which battles are worth fighting sometimes. I still may have done what the inspector wanted to keep project moving, but may have also continued to fight for what I thought would be the right call as well, especially if you anticipate similar situations may come up again. This also lets him know you are not going to let him bully you around just because he has some authority to do so and still makes him accountable for his judgements.
 
manic67 said:
I've got one for the books.
I did a temp pole recently so the spray foam guys could do their work( no generators were available because of Irma).
Did a completely code compliant install. Inspector fails me because the panel is grounded, not the weatherhead. I say the panel is one of the three locations in the code allowed to be grounded. He says in Clinton it has to be at weatherhead.
Ok, where is it written?
It's not.
Hmm.
Now he's set the job back a couple of weeks.
I think i'll make up a new rule: inspectors need to pay me $50 for the privilege of coming on my site.
Click to expand...

Where to attach the ground (GEC) is up to the POCO. The inspector is just going by the POCO requirements. I deal with mulitple POCOs and there are some that require it at the weatherhead, some in the meter, and some they don't care.
So check with the POCO to see where they require yours. That will tell you whether the inspector was correct or not.

The NEC states, without looking it up, that anywhere from the weatherhead to the service disconnect is acceptable. But you have to go by what the POCO requires. If they don't care then the inspector is wrong and you could show him in the code book.
 
Little Bill said:
Where to attach the ground (GEC) is up to the POCO. The inspector is just going by the POCO requirements. I deal with mulitple POCOs and there are some that require it at the weatherhead, some in the meter, and some they don't care.
So check with the POCO to see where they require yours. That will tell you whether the inspector was correct or not.

The NEC states, without looking it up, that anywhere from the weatherhead to the service disconnect is acceptable. But you have to go by what the POCO requires. If they don't care then the inspector is wrong and you could show him in the code book.
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Here if POCO wants something a certain way the POCO enforces those rules. The EI is only inspecting to NEC. If EI knows POCO well enough he may ask you if you are sure POCO will let you do that, but that is about as far as that conversation goes.
 
kwired said:
Here if POCO wants something a certain way the POCO enforces those rules. The EI is only inspecting to NEC. If EI knows POCO well enough he may ask you if you are sure POCO will let you do that, but that is about as far as that conversation goes.
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Here as well Poco usually says" that's the city's problem not mine I don't care what u do as long as a,b and c is done"

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Don't get me wrong, I love most of my inspectors. I'm a member of the IAEI. Most I've dealt with are my mentors as far as i'm concerned. It's only a couple who have a bit of God complex. The same inspector mentioned aforetime tried to fail me again on the reinspect for using a #8 ground on a 100 amp temp service. Hmmm.
 
manic67 said:
Don't get me wrong, I love most of my inspectors. I'm a member of the IAEI. Most I've dealt with are my mentors as far as i'm concerned. It's only a couple who have a bit of God complex. The same inspector mentioned aforetime tried to fail me again on the reinspect for using a #8 ground on a 100 amp temp service. Hmmm.
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Have to link this to lighten up the thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqeC3BPYTmE
 
Friends,

I am an Electrical Inspector for a CM team and I always welcome the Contractor to challenge my calls.

All my calls are based on the contract documents, specs and drawings and at the minimum the NEC.

I do ask the contractor for their opinion in things (pertains to work only, if course), only because with this kind of relationship, me and the contractor will learn from each other.

We all have the same goal, to finish the job and to satisfy the client so instead of working against each other, work together.

Works for me so far. just my two cents.
 
I don't mind if someone questions my call, just make sure you bring something to back it up with.

I once told a contractor, "if this conversation starts with, once upon a time, I've never heard of that before, or you're the only ones that call that, we're already done talking."

I get paid to read the code book, all day, everyday, that's all I do. I know every word in it, not in order of course, but there's not one in there I don't know.
 
cowboyjwc said:
..........just make sure you bring something to back it up with. .............
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Some inspectors have refused to even consider looking at MY code book. They will only look at THEIRS. And of course, they never have one with them.... it's always "back at the office".
 
We all know how to pronounce all the words in the code book also.

It's the interpretation part that makes it so difficult for everyone to agree on.

JAP>
 
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