Circuit Breaker tripping...not sure why...

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jim dungar said:
Why are you replacing the 225A breaker if it only trips when the 21.5A lighting circuit is on? Is it because it's cheaper than having it tested?

nope...we actually had a spare in the other electrical room (yes, i'm ashamed that I didn't know this to begin with) and we will send the replaced one out for testing...just to appease my curiosity at this point...

but, i'm still wondering why, and if, the 1P 20 could be the issue?
 
emahler said:
but, i'm still wondering why, and if, the 1P 20 could be the issue?
Did it ever trip? Is the load on the 1p 20 an overload or a sort circuit that happens to be within the tolerances of the 1p 20 at the time you measured the current draw?

Reason I ask is because if that load measured on the 1p20 is substantially leakage current, it may hard short intermittently and trip the breaker in the MDP before it trips the 1p20. If it's just overload, then it has absolutely nothing to do with the breaker in the MDP tripping.
 
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single pole 20

single pole 20

emahler said:
nope...we actually had a spare in the other electrical room (yes, i'm ashamed that I didn't know this to begin with) and we will send the replaced one out for testing...just to appease my curiosity at this point...

but, i'm still wondering why, and if, the 1P 20 could be the issue?
Is downstream of the main how could it possibly be???
 
quogueelectric said:
Is downstream of the main how could it possibly be???
Happens all the time. Hard short on a branch circuit can often trip an upstream main. It's a time-current horserace, and often the breaker with dials wins.
 
breaker management

breaker management

mdshunk said:
Happens all the time. Hard short on a branch circuit can often trip an upstream main. It's a time-current horserace, and often the breaker with dials wins.
This is true but OP described only slight overload downstream yet main was not overloaded fully yet. There was no evidence of a short circuit that I could see from the description. Th fact that the 20 amp single pole is overloaded seems to bother the OP. This breaker should definitely be replaced.
 
quogueelectric said:
There was no evidence of a short circuit that I could see from the description.
Right, and no real-time recording was ever done to catch what was happening when the breaker tripped, which is why this whole thread is just a batch of silly guesses. Mickey Mouse troubleshooting.
 
emahler said:
this is great...2 engineers in a pissing contest:D

an update...remember that 20A 1P cb that had a load of 21.5A? well, with that circuit off, the 225A held...we were able to adjust the trip settings on both 225A breakers the other day...they were all on "Low", we just bumped them up to "2"...moved the 21.5A load to the phase that was drawing 136ish...had all 3 phases drawing approx 155A...about 1 hour later, the 225A breaker in the MDP tripped...

it ran for 3 days with no problems when the 21.5A circuit was off...60 mins after turning the 21.5A circuit on, it trips...shut that circuit down...

been working fine for the last 24ish hours...we are shutting them down on Friday to replace the 225A in the MDP, we'll also trace out the 21.5A lighting circuit and see if that in fact is the problem...

i'll keep you posted





I could be way off here, but there is a possibility that the circuit that you relocated has a "high impedance" ground fault on it.
Ask the "Megger King", and I hope he agrees with me in saying that a megger test of the circuit would most likely pick up if there is a "high resistance" ground fault on the relocated circuit.
Could be less expensive than changing the CBer and then have it occur again after you change it.
 
Whos the Megger King? I dont think that is the case here because it seems to be an intermittent problem, couldnt hurt to test the circuit however.

I thought this breaker was already replaced? It sure looked pretty in the pic, but did it come with full test reprorts? If so, then I would put a line monitor on the circuit and try to capture what is going on when the breaker trips.
 
OSHA Req

OSHA Req

Oops, its not 342, its 334.b.2, sorry about that, here is what it says.

1910.334(b)(2) Re-closing circuits after protective device operation. After a circuit is de-energized by a circuit protective device, the circuit may not be manually reenergized until it has been determined that the equipment and circuit can be safely energized. The repetitive manual re-closing of circuit breakers or re-energizing circuits through replaced fuses is prohibited.

Note: When it can be determined from the design of the circuit and the over current devices involved that the automatic operation of a device was caused by an overload rather than a fault condition, no examination of the circuit or connected equipment is needed before the circuit is reenergized.
 
mdshunk said:
Right, and no real-time recording was ever done to catch what was happening when the breaker tripped, which is why this whole thread is just a batch of silly guesses. Mickey Mouse troubleshooting.

sorry you disapprove....i will hang my head in shame now....
 
emahler said:
sorry you disapprove....i will hang my head in shame now....
It's not up to me to approve or not approve. I do, however, find it quite odd that a man who's otherwise so technically competent on the business end of this business would be troubleshooting by the hit and miss method you've embarked on, with little to no meaningful testing. When you have intermittent trips in a business that is up and operating, where you can't decommission the equipment to do detailed testing, step#1 is to record the thing for a while and look at the report, laptop screen, or whatever and go from there. Anything else is just guessing. You might have guessed right in this case, but don't be too proud of that.
 
mdshunk said:
It's not up to me to approve or not approve. I do, however, find it quite odd that a man who's otherwise so technically competent on the business end of this business would be troubleshooting by the hit and miss method you've embarked on, with little to no meaningful testing. When you have intermittent trips in a business that is up and operating, where you can't decommission the equipment to do detailed testing, step#1 is to record the thing for a while and look at the report, laptop screen, or whatever and go from there. Anything else is just guessing. You might have guessed right in this case, but don't be too proud of that.

don't panic...we are doing a shut down on friday night...i'm just curious what theories everyone had...
 
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