Closet light, Closet light

[barbeer]

Since most switches for residential dwelling unit bedroom closets are within the bedroom itself.....should not the switch "outlet" be included in the AFCI circuit? If the closet light switch was within the closet itself I could see allowing no protection. Interpretations?!

 

[tom baker]

Its debatable if the switch counts as an outlet (if you read the Art 100 Definition of Outlet).
Mike Holts graphics show a switch as being an outlet within a bedroom.
Practically it may be easy to wire it from a AFCI in the adjacent room.

 

[dcspector]

NEC 210.12(B) I think the vast majority (if required in their area) would consider the bedroom closet as part of the bedroom. So yes all outlets in the bedrooms would require AFCI protection.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Greg,

What makes a "closet" a "bedroom"?

 

[dcspector]

Al.....I know I did not phrase that properly. What I meant was the bedroom closet is part of the bedroom that it is serving and the vast majority would agree that afci would be required for the lighting outlets in that closet....If afci's are required in their areas. I do not type very well.....did that make better sense? Thanks Al.....

 

[finhead]

A switch, according to Article 100 is not an outlet.

Also, a proposed definition of clothes closet has been submitted for the 2008 NEC. It goes like this: " A non-habitable room or space intended primarily for storage of garments and apparel.

The non-habitable part clarifies that it is not a part of the bedroom.

 

[barbeer]

A switch, according to Article 100 is not an outlet.

I disagree- The full current of said utilization equipment is passing thru said switch, therefore I could argue that it counts. I believe that others would agree that "all outlets" is intended to include all switches within a bedroom as well as receps.

Seems to me like a closet, with that many combustibles should be the primary concern for protection? Too much grey area!

 

[dcspector]

Finhead.....I agree about a closet IRC defines a small chamber used for storage...but NEC outlet definition....utilization equipment...lighting ?

 

[dcspector]

barbeer.....we must have posted at the same time.....and I agree.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Barbeer and Greg,

This question of whether a switch can, or should, be considered an outlet resulted in the longest thread, so far, in the history of this Forum.

My summary statement is here on page #78 of this thread

The subject is highly debatable.

Personally, I defend the interpretation that a switch, used as a controller, has an outlet in it.

 

[finhead]

Well Boys

Did you happen to see the examples of outets given in the NEC Handbook?

 

[al hildenbrand]

I should add, the thread has some formatting irregularities that haven't been cleared up since the last upgrade of the Forum's software.

The text of the thread is intact.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Did you happen to see the examples of outets given in the NEC Handbook?

What pages or examples or sections are you referring to?

 

[dcspector]

Al,

Thank You......but will remain confused. Yes. I read the replies. If the switch is not an outlet but the lighting outlet is??????????? or am I not seeing the light?....no pun intended.

 

[raider1]

A switch is not a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. JMHO

It is also my opinion that a closet is NOT part of a bedroom, nor does it define a bedroom.

Chris

 

[dcspector]

Chris, Al,

I can see the "light" plus I was doing a little research since my last reply.

Thanks and what a great learning tool this forum is

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If that closet is part of the bedroom then so is the bathroom.We called the room with 2 foot and 6 foot spacing a bedroom and included a smoke and egress for fire.We called it a bedroom because it was likely to have a BED in it for purpose of sleeping.Now if its going to be included as part of the bedroom then receptacle outlets are required too.Pick one.It cant be both.And that room with the tub needs the other receptacles too.Hmmm what about that room we call a hall ???????

 

[dcspector]

Jim,

IRC R304.3 habitable room must be at least 7' in any horizontal dimension.....But we should not go there.....this is an Electrical forum.

thanks

 

[stickboy1375]

A switch is not a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. JMHO

It is also my opinion that a closet is NOT part of a bedroom, nor does it define a bedroom.

Chris

If its a bedroom closet it must be part of the bedroom?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If its a bedroom closet it must be part of the bedroom?

And if its a bedroom bathroom it must be part of the ------------------?