Code Compliant or Esthetics?

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I dont know about others but inspectors here wont back down just because the home owner doesnt like whats required.To not put in the required receptacle and hope the inspector misses it is foolish.Its your job,your company.Never put yourself in a bad spot just because they dont want something.One lawsuit could destroy you.Or you might find yourself 10 years from now paying to fix this when the new owner moves in.A good HI would point out the lack of the required receptacle on this island.Could be very costly to add later.I did mostly residential for over 20 years and know customers can be hard to deal with.I simply tell them what is required and suggest ways to get around what we can.Leave that island off the print and dont install till after CO.That way i am out of the picture and the inspector has nothing to tag.When they sell the house its there problem not mine.
 
If the HO does not want it, and the inspector is willing to sign off on it, let it go. My first response to the HO is that NEC requires an outlet and they are subject to it whether they like it or not. I can not recall of a speciffic incident where I let one go because the HO just did not want it, but I have pre-pulled a wire and told HO the final say so would be up to the inspector and I would make the consult call before I cut any holes. You can bypass just about anything with the right signature, and my guess is most everyone here has done it under their own circumstances (from houses to major commercial projects it is amazing what an inpector's or engineer's stamp can accomplish :smile: ).

BTW, I have had similar discussions regarding wall space receptacles. No place on the wall just means a floor receptacle. And I have had inspectors say put it there when HO did not want, and I have had inspectors let it go based on varying circumstances.
 
360Youth said:
If the HO does not want it, and the inspector is willing to sign off on it, let it go. My first response to the HO is that NEC requires an outlet and they are subject to it whether they like it or not. I can not recall of a speciffic incident where I let one go because the HO just did not want it, but I have pre-pulled a wire and told HO the final say so would be up to the inspector and I would make the consult call before I cut any holes. You can bypass just about anything with the right signature, and my guess is most everyone here has done it under their own circumstances (from houses to major commercial projects it is amazing what an inpector's or engineer's stamp can accomplish :smile: ).

BTW, I have had similar discussions regarding wall space receptacles. No place on the wall just means a floor receptacle. And I have had inspectors say put it there when HO did not want, and I have had inspectors let it go based on varying circumstances.
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I would keep a copy of his signature saying you can just leave it out.Few inspectors would sign that.Just simply passing it solves nothing.Later he will simply say he missed it.Still your problem.
 
This is a real world problem that everyone installing electrical work has run into. Mostly it's the electricians installing work in peoples homes, but Historical societys have their rules that make them think that esthetics come first also, so electricians installing work in these places have the same problem. The list could go on. The bottom line is that the adopted codes are law and anything less is not compliant. Install your work in compliance with the code and you won't have the trouble that you would if you don't. It is not the installers job to argue code compliance with homeowners, designers etc. pass that call on to the POOR electrical inspector it's his job to enforce the codes . Tastefully inform the homeowner etc. that there is a code issue and if they won't budge don't plow ahead and install receptacles etc. Call for an electrical inspection and put the onus on the POOR electrical inspector to make the call.
 
SEO said:
This is a real world problem that everyone installing electrical work has run into. Mostly it's the electricians installing work in peoples homes, but Historical societys have their rules that make them think that esthetics come first also, so electricians installing work in these places have the same problem. The list could go on. The bottom line is that the adopted codes are law and anything less is not compliant. Install your work in compliance with the code and you won't have the trouble that you would if you don't. It is not the installers job to argue code compliance with homeowners, designers etc. pass that call on to the POOR electrical inspector it's his job to enforce the codes . Tastefully inform the homeowner etc. that there is a code issue and if they won't budge don't plow ahead and install receptacles etc. Call for an electrical inspection and put the onus on the POOR electrical inspector to make the call.
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Inspector has it easy.You failed the inspection today,call back when you have it fixed.No inspection ,no co.By the way you have a reinspect fee.
 
SEO said:
This is a real world problem that everyone installing electrical work has run into. Mostly it's the electricians installing work in peoples homes, but Historical societys have their rules that make them think that esthetics come first also, so electricians installing work in these places have the same problem. The list could go on. The bottom line is that the adopted codes are law and anything less is not compliant. Install your work in compliance with the code and you won't have the trouble that you would if you don't. It is not the installers job to argue code compliance with homeowners, designers etc. pass that call on to the POOR electrical inspector it's his job to enforce the codes . Tastefully inform the homeowner etc. that there is a code issue and if they won't budge don't plow ahead and install receptacles etc. Call for an electrical inspection and put the onus on the POOR electrical inspector to make the call.
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Also if an inspector agrees with an owner and waives a requirement, request a copy for your records and keep a paper trail. It's better than nothing if it comes back. It would be very difficult to make a homeowner install something if the inspector sided with them. If the inspector will not put it in writing send a letter to his superviser requesting a copy of the waiver.
 
You guys act like the stinking NEC is the difference between life and death as if you don't do everything to the letter of the book we'll all be killed. In some cases it certainly may be but for crying out loud not having a receptacle on an island is no biggie. In fact having one is probably just as dangerous.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Inspector has it easy.You failed the inspection today,call back when you have it fixed.No inspection ,no co.By the way you have a reinspect fee.
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I guess inspectors do have it pretty easy.:grin:
 
electricmanscott said:
You guys act like the stinking NEC is the difference between life and death as if you don't do everything to the letter of the book we'll all be killed. In some cases it certainly may be but for crying out loud not having a receptacle on an island is no biggie. In fact having one is probably just as dangerous.
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Seems you live in state that does not care about nec.I hope you never find yourself in court being sued for damages when some little kid gets hurt because you failed to comply with what was required.Your insurance premium will go sky high if you can even get any.Your setting yourself up for a fall.Like it or not we must comply with nec and the inspector must inforce it.Our opinions on it being right matter not.As i said earlier i think this receptacle is a hazard,but i still install them.
 
electricmanscott said:
You guys act like the stinking NEC is the difference between life and death as if you don't do everything to the letter of the book we'll all be killed. In some cases it certainly may be but for crying out loud not having a receptacle on an island is no biggie. In fact having one is probably just as dangerous.
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But it's really fun to see you get all upset, and BTW, whether or not it is a life or death situation, it is a "stinking NEC" requirement, so it must be installed, like it or not. :wink:

Roger
 
electricmanscott said:
You guys act like the stinking NEC is the difference between life and death as if you don't do everything to the letter of the book we'll all be killed. In some cases it certainly may be but for crying out loud not having a receptacle on an island is no biggie. In fact having one is probably just as dangerous.
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I think insurance companies would agree with you and may submit a proposal for a code change to prohibit the use of the exception to section 210.52 (C) (5). However as it is written if something happened because one wasn't there they would be the first to use that against you.:smile:
 
inspectors are not permitted to to decide which sections they enforce, and just because an inspector decides to let something go, you as the contractor are still responsible, like I said before, if you don't mind an inspector not enforcing a code requirement, don't cry when he enforces something that is not a code requirement (thats real world)
 
Our state has a procedure for filing for variances from any state rule, including the NEC. The variances come from the state AHJ not the local inspector.
 
jim dungar said:
Our state has a procedure for filing for variances from any state rule, including the NEC. The variances come from the state AHJ not the local inspector.
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fair enough but what would the time frame be to get it and does it cost anything.
 
Can anyone provide any proof that installing a receptacle on an island is more dangerous then not installing it?











I thought not.:smile:
 
iwire said:
Can anyone provide any proof that installing a receptacle on an island is more dangerous then not installing it?











I thought not.:smile:
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Yes maybe but not me.
How about a pole on is it safer without or with .
The Amish never get hurt with it not having one.
 
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