Color code for a wye 415/240V service

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How about purple, pink, gray, and white? I know gray means grounded, but with the white also present . . . :unsure:
 
tortuga said:
I believe most of the EU and now the UK have standardized on
Brown/black/grey light blue for neutral. Green with yellow stripe for ECG
My guess is 480/277 wont go away any time soon but this voltage class will become a 'standard' voltage.
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Only a matter of time before 240/416Y results in 120/208 and 277/480 being phases out.
 
Side note: first time I saw the blue and brown colors, I thought they had it backwards. The ground is brown, and the sky is blue.
 
jim dungar said:
This goes beyond 416/240V. It deals with the vast number of already installed electrical installations. Any proposed color scheme that uses one of the existing common colors, of black, red, blue, yellow, brown or orange, would be a problem. You would never know if a single conductor was part of the new scheme or an existing one that is grandfathered in. I have seen people 'pitch a fit' when a motor starter had BOY on the line side and OBY on the load side so the motor turned in the correct direction. I have seen locations that would not allow BOY colors to feed their control panel because orange and yellow were reserved for 'foreign' voltages not controlled by the panel disconnect.
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Unfortunately, all you really have is violet as an easy to find color of wire/tape, that isn't already used in an industry norm color scheme.

Perhaps use violet as the designation for the voltage system that isn't 120/208V or 277/480V, and identify the phase with a number of bands of electrical tape, rather than a separate color. You might be able to find cyan or magenta tape, and perhaps Violet/Magenta/Cyan could be the color scheme for the phases of a voltage system that do not match an industry standard voltage system.
 
Honestly I think most would agree that any good electrician uses a meter, there is nothing in the code that says the colors cant repeat.
And the important thing no matter what a decider chooses would be to avoid the existing 480/277 colors as that would be the most likely to lead to confusion.
The most likely secnerio is a code change that will allow the international scheme in some way with labeling, plaques.
 
tortuga said:
Honestly I think most would agree that any good electrician uses a meter, there is nothing in the code that says the colors cant repeat.
And the important thing no matter what a decider chooses would be to avoid the existing 480/277 colors as that would be the most likely to lead to confusion.
The most likely secnerio is a code change that will allow the international scheme in some way with labeling, plaques.
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The problem is that the meter tells you what is there, not what is supposed to be there.
 
drcampbell said:
Sounds like this service is going to become popular enough that a new color code needs to be designated.
Cyan, magenta, yellow?
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Would use purple for one if these colors. Never see that color being used. Can remember purchasing 2 rolls if every color that Scotch made from supply house. Believe 10 different colors. With white,gray & green having their own desination only leaves 7 colors available. Never seen this voltage sytem anywhere .
 
garbo said:
Would use purple for one if these colors. Never see that color being used. Can remember purchasing 2 rolls if every color that Scotch made from supply house. Believe 10 different colors. With white,gray & green having their own desination only leaves 7 colors available. Never seen this voltage sytem anywhere .
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Purple used to be very common for 277/480 volt services before the 80’s. Then most switched to BOY. I have heard Texas still uses YBP, don’t know for sure.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Purple used to be very common for 277/480 volt services before the 80’s. Then most switched to BOY. I have heard Texas still uses YBP, don’t know for sure.
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Right I forgot Texas was a purple state I think I herd that was a thing.

I just looked up 400.22 Grounded-Conductor Identification and it has allowed light blue neutrals in appliance cords since 1978:
2017 NEC said:
(C) Colored Insulation. A white or gray insulation on one
conductor and insulation of a readily distinguishable color or
colors on the other conductor or conductors for cords having no
braids on the individual conductors.
For jacketed cords furnished with appliances, one conductor
having its insulation colored light blue, with the other conductors
having their insulation of a readily distinguishable color other
than white or gray.
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Those cords always have a brown for a hot and a green/w yellow stripe for EGC thats what 43 years of some light blue neutrals withouot the sky falling? No documented problems with these cords in the US.
Natural Gray was dropped in the 2002 NEC,
so perhaps bringing back 'natural gray' as light gray
And our current requirement to group conductors that
could pave the way for the IEC group of colors being allowed.

My hunch is manufactures would love to use the existing cables they already make for these systems.
I am surprised some of our over the pond members have not chimed in?
I know the UK has gone thru some color code pain.
and what does Canada do if they have 600/347 along side 480/277 with 240/120 delta?
Cheers
and Happy Friday
 
I'd have no issue with a white or grey noodle with a blue stripe.

I agree that a color code should be implemented but perhaps not mandated in that I hate anything mandated outside of immediate life safety rooted in strong theory.

The color code should be well though out in that it will take over as 120/208Y and 277/480Y is phased out.
 
Striped neutrals are very common with UPS circuits, Big Orange uses them to identify between “clean” and “dirty” neutrals because they are in the same wireway above the registers in the older stores.
 
IMHO just stick with BOY for both '400V class' systems.

If a facility has both and needs to distinguish at the color code level, then add a stripe.

How often will 480/277 and 416/240 share the same pipe? Same panel? Same building?

Jon
 
LarryFine said:
How about purple, pink, gray, and white? I know gray means grounded, but with the white also present . . . :unsure:
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I use both gray and white neutrals quite often at single voltage system facilities. Pulling two neutrals in a raceway in single system application - easy to identify which one goes with which ungrounded conductor(s) when making things up.

Sometimes use white as line side and gray as load side on GFCI devices when you will have both line and load side in a "downstream" raceway.
 
LarryFine said:
How about purple, pink, gray, and white? I know gray means grounded, but with the white also present . . . :unsure:
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Gray and white are reserved for grounded conductors. Colors that are reserved for grounded and grounding conductors are not permitted for use as ungrounded conductors. Except in cases where energized conductors are permitted to be bare, like pole-mounted overhead wire.
 
Carultch said:
Gray and white are reserved for grounded conductors. Colors that are reserved for grounded and grounding conductors are not permitted for use as ungrounded conductors. Except in cases where energized conductors are permitted to be bare, like pole-mounted overhead wire.
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Bare conductors are not white or gray though. Bare aluminum I guess sort of turns gray on the surface over time
 
kwired said:
Bare conductors are not white or gray though. Bare aluminum I guess sort of turns gray on the surface over time
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Bare metal is a "color" that is normally reserved for the grounding conductor, be it an EGC or a GEC, and overhead conductors that are properly separated are an exception that permits it for current-carrying conductors as well. That's the point I was making.
 
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