Color Re-Coding

[engy]

Consider this:
Long branch circuit to 480V 3ph load installed.
Equipment is then required to change to 208V 3ph.
Conduit reused and rerouted from nearby jbox to nearby 208V panel.
No change in conductor size is required.

Who would allow the Brown/Orange/Yellow wires to be re-identified as Black/Red/Blue?...
And who would require new conductors of “proper” color to be pulled?

 

[iwire]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Where is it written that brown orange yellow are the proper colors for 480?

 

[engy]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Brown/Orange/Yellow & Black/Red/Blue arbitrary, not my point.

Point is, we are changing from 480V to 208V.
Would you not require any conductor changes?

[ December 30, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: engy ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Does this circuit have a grounded conductor?
Don

 

[iwire]

Re: Color Re-Coding

I guess I am missing the point, as you say the colors are arbitrary they mean nothing.

Unless these ungrounded conductors are part of a multiwire branch circuit the NEC does not require them to be marked.

My own point of view if I was doing the work I would remark them where accessible to match the rest of the building but no requirement to do so that I know of.

210.4(D) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors. Where more than one nominal voltage system exists in a building, each ungrounded conductor of a multiwire branch circuit, where accessible, shall be identified by phase and system. This means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means and shall be permanently posted at each branch-circuit panelboard.

 

[engy]

Re: Color Re-Coding

This is all hypothetical.

That being the case, then 480V boards (and 208V for that matter) could have both B-O-Y and B-R-B colored branch circuits out of them, and be code compliant as long as the ones feeding multi-wire branch circuits were coded as posted per 210.4(D)?

Nothing would force all circuits to be B-O-Y for one voltage and B-R-B for the other?

FYI, I am not trying to do this, just challenging the code.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Now that you opened the can of worms how will we get the lid back on ?

 

[iwire]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Originally posted by engy:
then 480V boards (and 208V for that matter) could have both B-O-Y and B-R-B colored branch circuits out of them, and be code compliant as long as the ones feeding multi-wire branch circuits were coded as posted per 210.4(D)?

As much as that would be a poor installation I believe it would be code compliant.

Never assume a color is a certain voltage, test it.

 

[engy]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Now that you opened the can of worms how will we get the lid back on ?

That's why I drink whiskey & Coke.
I think I'll go home and have one now.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Engy: Theres is no color code requirement in the NEC. I admit it does look nice...

But if you have more than one nomimal voltage system, then the conductors are required to be identified by phase and system, see section 210.4(D)

 

[iwire]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Tom 210.4(D) only applies to the conductors of a multiwire branch circuit.

The rest of the circuits in the building could be randomly colored.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Color Re-Coding

The NEC only requires the neutral,grounding conductor and the high leg to be marked/identifed
the rest is a matter of how one was taught

 

[roger]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Allen, that's not true at all. Orange, brown, and yellow are specifically required in the NEC for a three phase system.


Roger

 

[marissa2]

Re: Color Re-Coding

The same equipment was changed from 480 volts to 208 volts, and no one checked the nameplate to see what current it will draw at 208 volts.
Lou

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Roger where ?????in the NEC,ok I guess I`ll be from Missourri

 

[roger]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Allen, look at 517.160(A)(5), there are other color requirements in the NEC also, but I won't tell right now.

Roger

[ December 30, 2003, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Allen what types of places does Roger usually work in?

 

[iwire]

Re: Color Re-Coding

You beat me.

 

[caj1962]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Roger
517.160 is for a special system in a special occupancy and cannot be confused with general requirements of the code. Use the code in the manner it is intended not just to win an argument.

 

[roger]

Re: Color Re-Coding

Caj, huh??? When someone says the NEC only requires bla bla bla and it is wrong, you would let them go on thinking they were right.

The correct answer could be in any chapter of the code book, or do you use just the parts you want?

Would you instruct someone you are mentoring to only pay attention to chapters 1 thru 4.

This could very well be an exam question they would miss, because you didn't think it was part of the "general requiremnts"

BTW one other color I mentioned is in one of these chapters.

What does this

Use the code in the manner it is intended not just to win an argument.

mean anyways?

Roger