- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Color Re-Coding
Use what ever name you like, many people use different names at the different forums.
Use what ever name you like, many people use different names at the different forums.
Color Re-Coding
- Thread starter engy
- Start date
- Status
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Color Re-Coding
Roger makes a very important point in his posts, that is the NEC covers a vast amount of territory and when answering a question, the answer should go beyond our everyday normal usuage. Without the experience of some of the 'other' parts of the NEC, it is hard to give the proper answer, especially if it is a test question.
For the last poster who was told the conductors for 480/277 had to be identified BOY colors, that may be a POCO rule, it is not in the NEC. The Local Union I was in had the requirement of BOY colors for 480/277.
Pierre
Roger makes a very important point in his posts, that is the NEC covers a vast amount of territory and when answering a question, the answer should go beyond our everyday normal usuage. Without the experience of some of the 'other' parts of the NEC, it is hard to give the proper answer, especially if it is a test question.
For the last poster who was told the conductors for 480/277 had to be identified BOY colors, that may be a POCO rule, it is not in the NEC. The Local Union I was in had the requirement of BOY colors for 480/277.
Pierre
sbradley71
Member
Re: Color Re-Coding
I'll be from Missouri also. It is common practice for BOY and BRB but I have never found a requirement in NEC either.
I'll be from Missouri also. It is common practice for BOY and BRB but I have never found a requirement in NEC either.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Color Re-Coding
For a rule not saying what colors,how did we get so lucky to all use the same ?
For a rule not saying what colors,how did we get so lucky to all use the same ?
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Color Re-Coding
The color code was in the NEC until about the 1975 edition. It was removed as too many electricians were assuming a black wire was 120V.
Usually what determines the wire color used is what is on the truck.
The color code was in the NEC until about the 1975 edition. It was removed as too many electricians were assuming a black wire was 120V.
Usually what determines the wire color used is what is on the truck.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Color Re-Coding
Yes you could do that for the ungrounded conductors Earl, not sure the NEC still allows using white for one and gray for the other, we are required to do that in MA
You could use plain white for both voltages as long as the two systems are not in the same raceway or enclosure.
Yes you could do that for the ungrounded conductors Earl, not sure the NEC still allows using white for one and gray for the other, we are required to do that in MA
You could use plain white for both voltages as long as the two systems are not in the same raceway or enclosure.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Color Re-Coding
Earlydean:
the first system grounded conductor is white or gray, the other is white with a stripe not green see 200.6(D)
Earlydean:
the first system grounded conductor is white or gray, the other is white with a stripe not green see 200.6(D)
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Color Re-Coding
Earl,
Don
[ January 02, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
Earl,
If these are branch circuits, that would be a violation of 210.4(D) because you have no way to identify the phase of the ungrounded conductors. If they are feeders there is no problem.
As long as the two systems are not in the same raceway or enclosure, then the use of white and gary as stated in your post is code compliant, however if the systems share enclosures, there is a violation of 200.6(D).
Don
[ January 02, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Color Re-Coding
Or am I missing something?
Don to be clear that only would apply to conductors of a multiwire branch circuit, not all branch circuits.
Or am I missing something?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Color Re-Coding
Bob,
Earl's post specified 3 blacks and a white. That would be a muliwire circuit.
Don
Bob,
Earl's post specified 3 blacks and a white. That would be a muliwire circuit.
Don
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Color Re-Coding
Yeah or it could one line to line circuit and one line to neutral circuit.
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Color Re-Coding
Yes........but
Yes........but
So they could black as long as they are identified.
chicar
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster,Pa
Re: Color Re-Coding
This is a perfect example of when "common curtisy" should kick in. The N.E.C. is the minimum electrical code in all states. It is up to you to go beyond the code especially if it helps your fellow electrician. Most Commercial and Industrial electricians know how important it is to label wires color and circuit numbers. Black,Red,Blue,White 120/240v Brown,Orange,Yellow,Gray 277/480v is known throughout the land and should be In forced by the N.E.C. [My opinion] when you are troubleshooting other electricians work you know if they are experienced or not. I put my signature on my jobs by marking box covers as well as wires so the next electrician will understand, "whats going on" safely.
This is a perfect example of when "common curtisy" should kick in. The N.E.C. is the minimum electrical code in all states. It is up to you to go beyond the code especially if it helps your fellow electrician. Most Commercial and Industrial electricians know how important it is to label wires color and circuit numbers. Black,Red,Blue,White 120/240v Brown,Orange,Yellow,Gray 277/480v is known throughout the land and should be In forced by the N.E.C. [My opinion] when you are troubleshooting other electricians work you know if they are experienced or not. I put my signature on my jobs by marking box covers as well as wires so the next electrician will understand, "whats going on" safely.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Color Re-Coding
Well also Rogers Iso systems.
Webspark the only time the ungrounded conductors are required to be identified is when there are part of a multiwire branch circuit.
Well also Rogers Iso systems.
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Color Re-Coding
Yes Bob.
The quote is from 210.4 Multiwire Branch Circuits (D)Identification of Ungrounded Conductors.
Yes Bob.
The quote is from 210.4 Multiwire Branch Circuits (D)Identification of Ungrounded Conductors.
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Color Re-Coding
Quote by iwire,
Also I agree with chicar. I dont want someone looking at my work a year later and muttering to himself, "Who the h*** did this?"
Quote by iwire,
Right On
Also I agree with chicar. I dont want someone looking at my work a year later and muttering to himself, "Who the h*** did this?"
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Color Re-Coding
Go easy on that white for 120 and gray for 277 as that is an NEC violation now, (see Tom Bakers post back a little way in this thread)
Where I work in MA, White is required for systems under 250 to ground and gray for systems above 250 to ground.
Welcome to the forum Chicar, just because I argue about NEC minimums that is not how I work, I agree common sense and courtesy are a good thing!
Go easy on that white for 120 and gray for 277 as that is an NEC violation now, (see Tom Bakers post back a little way in this thread)
Where I work in MA, White is required for systems under 250 to ground and gray for systems above 250 to ground.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Color Re-Coding
Don
It is only a violation where the grounded conductors from both systems are in a common raceway or enclosure.
Don
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: Color Re-Coding
Is a little bit of phase tape so difficult or expensive that you wouldn't do it anyway? I'd remark it so that it matches the other systems in the building without even giving it a second thought... whether it was required or not. That just seems like the "workmanlike" thing to do. (Though I wouldn't hold it against a guy who didn't remark the phase conductors if time was of the essence)
Is a little bit of phase tape so difficult or expensive that you wouldn't do it anyway? I'd remark it so that it matches the other systems in the building without even giving it a second thought... whether it was required or not. That just seems like the "workmanlike" thing to do. (Though I wouldn't hold it against a guy who didn't remark the phase conductors if time was of the essence)
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