Company using auctioned/ damaged equipment

[Fred B]

Have had employer that did stuff not right or used the cheapest alternative even if it wasn't compliant or safe. Had to look for other employment to not risk injury, because they didn't listen to the concerns.

 

[Eddie702]

In MA. a journeyman is responsible for his own work......unless he is told to do something he feels is wrong by the master then it falls on the master.

 

[kwired]

Not so. Do you think the labor board will help me get a job or back or reinstate my job if I loose it for not following management / owners orders?

You can loose your job for not following orders. It’s not that easy to just get another job and there are bills to pay.

I hate how people put all blame and responsibility on technicians who seem to have to compromise between owner jurisdiction and state, law etc

Can you at least get them to sign something stating the install was against your professional advice? Whether you are a contractor or an employee this is a first step in limiting any potential liability for something you advised against.

 

[kwired]

I worked at a municipal POCO for 5 years before going on my own to be a contractor (debatable on if that was wise or not!) and I was under the impression that since they weren’t for profit, maintenance and employee safety would be better than the other guys right?? Turns out, the same mentality was held.

One super was caught fudging numbers on the recert dates for safety harnesses to prevent having to buy them as often (was reported to OSHA, she got demoted and sent to another dept); someone thought they could get away from buying FR/AR rated rain gear to save $300k (got caught, had to buy it anyway so the company ended up buying it twice cuz the others were not returnable), they would buy chinese transformers to save a few million, but then were shocked when they’d blow up after 5-10 years instead of lasting 30-40+ like the top brands; I was in charge of the hivolt test lab and was constantly fighting with management for 2 years on buying proper rubber gloves/blankets and maintaining hot sticks.

Like I said, no one at the top is going to admit or have a hard copy of a report that says they’d rather cut corners than worry about protecting their people, but theres plenty of bean counters and CFOs that just look at dollars, budgets and bonuses and they take the gamble.

Even though it is municipal, they get pressured by their city council, the mayor, etc. to reduce their budget, and though technically they are non profit, many these municipal utilities are still generating funds that end up going to other city programs and the city council wants to rely on those funds for a many other purposes as possible and expects the utility supervisor to figure out how they are going to comply with safety on this limited budget. Not saying it happens this way everywhere but there is a reason these cities have municipal power - to raise some funds. Otherwise it is just easier to let some other POCO to operate a system and city has much less involvement in operating said system than if they have their own system. Some the small to medium sized cities are where it is the worst, yes they get a lot of funds but operations of the utility may not be as safe or reliable if their needs are not addressed as needed to the city council. Then they cry when a major repair is needed and the department supervisor just says a little planning would have prevented this sudden need for funds to fix this.

Your "board of directors" is elected people, which few if any have any idea what it takes or how to operate an electrical distribution system

 

[Jpflex]

Can you at least get them to sign something stating the install was against your professional advice? Whether you are a contractor or an employee this is a first step in limiting any potential liability for something you advised against.

In MA. a journeyman is responsible for his own work......unless he is told to do something he feels is wrong by the master then it falls on the master.

And this is where bosses and companies lie because they wanted to charge/ list investors full price as if new equipment while actually paying dirt cheap for junk yard supplies

 

[Jpflex]

Can you at least get them to sign something stating the install was against your professional advice? Whether you are a contractor or an employee this is a first step in limiting any potential liability for something you advised against.

This is what thaught but the company owners will not do this. They would be more inclined to hire replace me with someone less knowledgeable of NEC code or willing to follow orders for unsafe work.

I do text my bosses on messenger and mention my concerns of safety as often as I can without making myself suspicious. This at least gives me a communication log and some documentation

 

[kwired]

This is what thaught but the company owners will not do this. They would be more inclined to hire replace me with someone less knowledgeable of NEC code or willing to follow orders for unsafe work.

I do text my bosses on messenger and mention my concerns of safety as often as I can without making myself suspicious. This at least gives me a communication log and some documentation

I'd be looking for a new job before this one cost you more than it pays you.

Property damages is one thing, if someone is seriously injured or killed you may have a hard time living with that even if you disregard fines and lawsuits that have you listed as a defendant. Your bosses are greedy and will throw you under a bus at first sign of any troubles.

 

[Jpflex]

I'd be looking for a new job before this one cost you more than it pays you.

Property damages is one thing, if someone is seriously injured or killed you may have a hard time living with that even if you disregard fines and lawsuits that have you listed as a defendant. Your bosses are greedy and will throw you under a bus at first sign of any troubles.

You are so right but I don’t know what I could be held responsible for legally. This is why I have been documenting my concerns on surface inspection reports and messenger communication between management

We see an average of two general laborer helpers leaving and two new employees replacing them every two weeks and it’s always because of low pay

They are paying their lineman who is 29 years old who has former lineman experience only 26 an hour when they could be paying him $150 per hour.

I started out driving 180 miles one way to this mine sight, staying on sight all week making less than the lineman is making but I am doing this to acquire my 4,000 hours so I can qualify for journeyman’s licensing testing

 

[jaggedben]

As an employee, as opposed to a contractor, you are relatively shielded from liability for damages in court. Especially if you document that everything you did was typically at the direction of the company, on things like this. Say, through casual text messaging. (Send a picture of the used equipment and say "You want to use this one?" and get "Yes" or thumbs up emoji.)

For example, if something happens and only company property is damaged then the worst the company could do against you would be to fire you; in order for the company to sue you for damages, they would have prove you acted maliciously, and you will have evidence of the opposite, that you tried to convince them to raise their standards. So yeah, document stuff with text messages or with your personal photos and videos. Don't document stuff you know is wrong! Just where they direct you to do stuff to minimal standard that you think should be done better. You can be honest about what you don't know, because if you are incompetent as an employee (again, as opposed to a contractor) then it's their fault for hiring you.

Now if an incident results in, say, another employee's injury or death then the stakes would be a lot higher, as the injured party could sue both the company and you (if they come to the knowledge it had anything to do with your work). However the company would have some duty to defend you as long as the work was performed as directed by them and, again, you didn't act maliciously or against company direction. This is where you'd likely need a lawyer to defend your interests if you didn't trust the company and their insurance company's lawyers. But the case law would still put onus pretty firmly on the company.

Disclaimer: I'm speaking not as a lawyer, obviously. Just as someone who did have to speak to a lawyer once to clarify these sorts of issues, in your same state.

 

[petersonra]

They are paying their lineman who is 29 years old who has former lineman experience only 26 an hour when they could be paying him $150 per hour.

No one who could make $150/hr is going to work for $26/hr unless there are some other things going on like the opportunity for some serious graft.

The best you can do is fix problems as you run across them. If you can't fix it document it and move on. Get your hours in and find something better

 

[gene6]

What I’m saying is that electricians should not be held responsible for when non electrician owners or bosses buy used equipment that fails and causes hazards

Take a hour of your day and read article 110. Especially 110.3 and 110.21. Once I figured out how to point to the correct code sections on my time sheet I could get management to sway. Don't use some smart phone app to tell them, use your time sheet, they have to keep your time sheets for something like 7 years legally.
For example I put "12/23/2023: Worked on panel D230 in Garage D, panel does not meet NEC 110.3 and 110.26, many safety concerns. I alerted Mr Darrel "

 

[zbang]

The big on there is to keep copies of the records. Don't just rely on their copy of the timesheet or photos on their phone, make your own.

 

[ggunn]

The big on there is to keep copies of the records. Don't just rely on their copy of the timesheet or photos on their phone, make your own.

And maybe get them notarized?

 

[zbang]

That's an expensive proposition*, usually just having contemporaneous records where each entry has a date/time is enough.

*notaries often charge $10/signature

 

[petersonra]

And maybe get them notarized?

What would the point be? It would not change anything. Document and keep copies. Just like you keep copies of your time sheets. A cell phone photo is likely adequate.

 

[Jraef]

You cannot connect to a piece of equipment that is not rated (SCCR) for the available fault current in the system. SCCR on existing equipment is only valid if the equipment is in factory original (unmodified) condition and has been documented to have been properly maintained. There is no way you can verify that the 1940s auction sourced panel will meet that criteria.