- Location
- Massachusetts
adrian33773 said:
Adrian I believe all George is saying is that if there are local requirments they must be cleary adopted by the area just like the NEC itself.
Complex Service Entrance Mast in RMC
- Thread starter jkcowboy
- Start date
- Status
Adrian I believe all George is saying is that if there are local requirments they must be cleary adopted by the area just like the NEC itself.
adrian33773
Member
P.s.
P.s.
If you do a service upgrade, all the new equipment has to be located and installed according to code regardless of whether or not it costs 50% of the value of the property. You can not duplicate an old system which is no longer up to code. That would be like not grounding the system because the old one wasn't. If the equipment has to be moved up all those branch circuits below it will be too short to reach and would have to be removed or replaced with waterproof installations. Just common sense!
P.s.
If you do a service upgrade, all the new equipment has to be located and installed according to code regardless of whether or not it costs 50% of the value of the property. You can not duplicate an old system which is no longer up to code. That would be like not grounding the system because the old one wasn't. If the equipment has to be moved up all those branch circuits below it will be too short to reach and would have to be removed or replaced with waterproof installations. Just common sense!
- Location
- Massachusetts
adrian33773 said:
Again you are basing your statements on local practices not on any particular NEC requirement.
adrian33773
Member
Yes iwire, that is partially true. The 50% part is local but the installation itself must meet NEC in most localities plus local ordinances as well. All electricians need to familiarize themselves with the local area they are working in. Just doing work according to NEC is not always enough. DaveTap said he lives in Ft Myers, hit by Charlie, and this was all new to him. That is why I pulled up the ordinances for Ft Myers, FL. It is not the locality's job to make everything known to us. We need to find that information for ourselves from public records which ARE made available to us. I know in Colorado you are roughly a mile above sea level. But I'm sure you have communities located close to dams. That is why I recommended to jkcowboy (the author of this thread) that he should contact local building dept. and find out what is expected in his situation. Otherwise, if his installation does not pass, he will have to pay to do the job over plus most likely pay to have it re-inspected. I'm sure the customer doesn't want to pay for all that. I'm only saying what I would do. I don't know what locality his job is in, but what he describes is a flood zone based on what he said about breakaway walls.
DaveTap
Senior Member
- Location
- Currently Flowery Branch, GA
Thanks Adrian... I stand corrected. Since arriving in 2004 I argued this had to exist in local code but many trips to city and county offices, and discussions with inspectors didn't find it, since it never affected a permit I finally gave up. I know recent changes in the way FEMA calculates wave height raised flood plain 1.18' last month. Do you have links like that for Fort Myers Beach, Cape Coral or Captiva? I've worked at a few "stilt" buildings on the beach that are 17' above ground, some homes (I'd guess 70's) are 8', others 4', and pre 60's (guess) were built on slab.adrian33773 said:
http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=13900&sid=9
Chapter 110 Flood Prevention and Protection
Article III. Flood Hazard Reduction
Sec. 110-111. General Standards
Provision (5) Electrical, heating, ventilation, plumbing, air conditioning equipment, and other service facilities shall be designed and/or located so as to prevent water from entering or accumulating within the components during conditions of flooding.
Provision (9) Any alteration, repair, reconstruction, or improvement to a structure which is in compliance with the provisions of this article, shall meet the requirements for new construction as contained in this article.
Sec. 110-115. Elevated Buildings
Provision (4) Electrical, plumbing and other utility connections are prohibited below the base flood elevation.
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- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Adrian, welcome to the forum.
I agree, it's in anyone's best interests to know the particulars of the requirements of the AHJ they're working under. It was very cool of you to find that for Dave Tap.
We have amendments at the local level around here too, but they do not tend to be so flood-based, in general.
I just bristle at rules of thumb. They tend to give an incomplete picture, and get stored away as 'fact' in some folks' heads.
I agree, it's in anyone's best interests to know the particulars of the requirements of the AHJ they're working under. It was very cool of you to find that for Dave Tap.
We have amendments at the local level around here too, but they do not tend to be so flood-based, in general.
I just bristle at rules of thumb. They tend to give an incomplete picture, and get stored away as 'fact' in some folks' heads.
Yes, indeed. Fort Collins sits at the base of no less than two. If they give at the wrong time, the entire town is doomed. But that does not mean that all new houses built in Ft. Collins have all wall receptacles GFCI protected and at 48" off the floor.adrian33773 said:
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I just checked on this thread to see that it lived for quite awhile after I left the discussion. Here is the final resolution to the original questions I posed:
1. I chose a LB to 12" RNM sweep. I must have been brain dead at the time. This combined with an offset did the job nicely of obtaining the 12" offset.
2. I transitioned to RMC up the mast and had to connect a #4 bare to ground the upper mast. I had to get a little inventive on connecting it to the RMC using a 2" wrap around strap with a bolt driven into a dimple in the RMC and connected to the ground wire with a eye and bolt/nut combo. Definitely solid but not store bought.
One unexpected item was found: this house had three multi-wire 20 amp ckts unlabeled, bkrs not connected and perhaps not on different phases. I did not identify them until I had pulled the old box off and got a good look at the cables.
From the discussions after I left: Every old canal home here has the meter and load center located below the flood plain. New houses have the meter/disconnect below the flool level with the load center on the second floor. In the event of a flood (just before), power is turned off to the entire community and not turned back on until the waters recede. The service entries are located on colums and not break away wall to keep them in place but not necessarily dry. Outlets are installed anywhere you want on the first floor with no requirement for GFCI because in a flood (Hurricane) the whole thing is underwater anyway and the loadcenters may flood about the same time as the outlets.
1. I chose a LB to 12" RNM sweep. I must have been brain dead at the time. This combined with an offset did the job nicely of obtaining the 12" offset.
2. I transitioned to RMC up the mast and had to connect a #4 bare to ground the upper mast. I had to get a little inventive on connecting it to the RMC using a 2" wrap around strap with a bolt driven into a dimple in the RMC and connected to the ground wire with a eye and bolt/nut combo. Definitely solid but not store bought.
One unexpected item was found: this house had three multi-wire 20 amp ckts unlabeled, bkrs not connected and perhaps not on different phases. I did not identify them until I had pulled the old box off and got a good look at the cables.
From the discussions after I left: Every old canal home here has the meter and load center located below the flood plain. New houses have the meter/disconnect below the flool level with the load center on the second floor. In the event of a flood (just before), power is turned off to the entire community and not turned back on until the waters recede. The service entries are located on colums and not break away wall to keep them in place but not necessarily dry. Outlets are installed anywhere you want on the first floor with no requirement for GFCI because in a flood (Hurricane) the whole thing is underwater anyway and the loadcenters may flood about the same time as the outlets.
- Status