Compliant or Not

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Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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I got a good laugh from this and let's base our answers on the 2017 NEC


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do you have the question that goes with it?

How to judge it may depend on what is trying to be illustrated.

Does say not to scale, but also has limited dimensions marked on it, but dimensions may not be quite so critical to the question that goes with it.
 
Compliant. The 11" section is wall counter space, and is governed by the "over 12 inch" rule. No outlet needed there. The peninsula rule is very confusing. As a homeowner, I would want an outlet in the 36" area (the peninsula's connecting wall). But my (mis)reading of the code tells me it is not required, given the outlet at the edge.
 
The receptacle outlets are bigger than the chair. I'd like to purchase me some of those for times when the drywall guy cuts the box hole an extra inch around all sides , and they don't even bother to tape any of the opening they just made in the wall...... So please provide a link to that supplier.
 
charlie b said:
As a homeowner, I would want an outlet in the 36" area (the peninsula's connecting wall). But my (mis)reading of the code tells me it is not required, given the outlet at the edge.
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I would ignore the 3' peninsula width and apply normal spacing rules to the 47" wall space.
 
IMO, Charlie is correct. The peninsula is now considered to be at the wall not the connecting edge as before. Since the code requires one for the peninsula then the one at the end covers that. The fact that the island is 3' wide does not matter. Now we have an 11" counter that does not require a receptacle and of course there is the range.

An entire 4' of what I would call counter is not required to have a receptacle. I can say this-- This is the NC formal interpretation of this. Here is the actual drawing from the state



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Dennis Alwon said:
IMO, Charlie is correct. The peninsula is now considered to be at the wall not the connecting edge as before. Since the code requires one for the peninsula then the one at the end covers that. The fact that the island is 3' wide does not matter. Now we have an 11" counter that does not require a receptacle and of course there is the range.

An entire 4' of what I would call counter is not required to have a receptacle. I can say this-- This is the NC formal interpretation of this. Here is the actual drawing from the state




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And I agree with them when it comes to changes in 2017 regarding peninsulas, though I would put at least one receptacle on the wall above the counter in that space anyway.

The far right receptacle (not above a counter) I don't totally agree with them, if that were a living room receptacle- they are correct, if it were a dining room, breakfast room, etc. it can be on a circuit that also serves the kitchen counters, at very least must still be a SABC.
 
kwired said:
The far right receptacle (not above a counter) I don't totally agree with them, if that were a living room receptacle- they are correct, if it were a dining room, breakfast room, etc. it can be on a circuit that also serves the kitchen counters, at very least must still be a SABC.
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Their wording is poorly written. But I think they are describing the 6' / 12' rule for receptacles in wall spaces. They are saying that a wall receptacle that is within 12 feet of a countertop receptacle does not comply with the rules. They are not saying anything about how the receptacle is powered.

 
I thought living room, dining room, etc... it needed to be within 6 feet of peninsula... to cover twelve foot rule... originally thought it was twelve feet of last kitchen socket, but was taught that the kitchen was all special circumstance and had nothing to do with first circuits in rooms away from kitchen such as dining room or living room.
 
Adamjamma said:
I thought living room, dining room, etc... it needed to be within 6 feet of peninsula... to cover twelve foot rule... originally thought it was twelve feet of last kitchen socket, but was taught that the kitchen was all special circumstance and had nothing to do with first circuits in rooms away from kitchen such as dining room or living room.
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We used to count a receptacle above the counter as part of the 6-12 rule, but I seem to recall changes in recent years that doesn't allow you to count that receptacle above counter as part of the 6-12 rule anymore, did not look into this before posting so maybe not quite right, but seem to recall seeing either Mike Holt images or IAEI images used to illustrate this rule. Of course such images are author's interpretation, but both mentioned are fairly credible sources for such a thing.
 
charlie b said:
Their wording is poorly written. But I think they are describing the 6' / 12' rule for receptacles in wall spaces. They are saying that a wall receptacle that is within 12 feet of a countertop receptacle does not comply with the rules. They are not saying anything about how the receptacle is powered.
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The second image does state that the far right receptacle shall not be served by the small appliance branch circuit. I agree with Ken, it would depend on what room that was in.
 
I find it interesting that one could go so far without on the wall without a receptacle. Of course, I would never do it that way but the fact is it can be done according to the NEC
 
Am I the only one that finds have 3' 11" of wall countertop space with no receptacle absolutely stupid? :slaphead:
 
infinity said:
Am I the only one that finds have 3' 11" of wall countertop space with no receptacle absolutely stupid? :slaphead:
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NO, but if you were an inspector you couldn't write a correction notice for that either based on as written 2017 NEC.

May or may not be what was intended but it is what resulted.
 
kwired said:
NO, but if you were an inspector you couldn't write a correction notice for that either based on as written 2017 NEC.

May or may not be what was intended but it is what resulted.
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I think that you might be correct although I don't know what was intended. This is just plain dumb. :cry:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The second image does state that the far right receptacle shall not be served by the small appliance branch circuit. I agree with Ken, it would depend on what room that was in.
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It doesn't mention SABC though, but what can or can't be done does depend on what that space is. If part of kitchen, dining, breakfast room, etc. it must be on a SABC, which can also serve counter receptacles, or not - your choice. 1500 VA for each separate SABC in your feeder/service calculations though.
 
infinity said:
Am I the only one that finds have 3' 11" of wall countertop space with no receptacle absolutely stupid? :slaphead:
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I'm with you and Larry on this.

I would count the 36" section of the peninsula as counter-top for receptacle spacing because it follows the plane of the wall.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
The second image does state that the far right receptacle shall not be served by the small appliance branch circuit.
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No it doesn't. It says that a wall receptacle must be within 12 feet of another wall receptacle, and that it can't be 12 feet away from a countertop receptacle and satisfy the 12 foot rule.

 
Chamuit said:
I'm with you and Larry on this.

I would count the 36" section of the peninsula as counter-top for receptacle spacing because it follows the plane of the wall.
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You certainly can do that, but Dennis' point is you don't have to.
 
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