Concrete encased electrode

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what if the bar is concealed

what if the bar is concealed

The requirement for the CEE is just about to hit TN (we have been on 2002). My question is, how do you handle the situation if the footer has been poured, perhaps the foundtaion & framing set before the electrician shows up and discovers the CEE was not made accessible or had no attachment ?
We have more "dingbats" doing concrete work in this county as we do "homeowner" electrcians. Without a doubt, I am going to find this situation. Seems disturbing an existing footer would brig about an unwanted liability.
 
augie47 said:
My question is, how do you handle the situation if the footer has been poured, perhaps the foundtaion & framing set before the electrician shows up and discovers the CEE was not made accessible or had no attachment ?
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Each area is different.

Here in MA the State building dept sent out a flier to all registered GCs explaining that if they will have rebar in the footing they must hire an EC to pull a permit run a GEC to the rebar and then have it inspected by the electrical inspector. The EC does not have to be the one for the entire job, the GC can hire an EC just for the CCE.

The flier went on to explain that if they ignored these steps that it could result in the demolition of the footing.

So basically, if the buildings footer went in after 1/1/05 and it has qualifying re-bar in it the CEE is required. The EC saying to the EI 'I got here after the footing' will not mean anything other then more costs to the GC.
 
augie47 said:
The requirement for the CEE is just about to hit TN (we have been on 2002). My question is, how do you handle the situation if the footer has been poured, perhaps the foundtaion & framing set before the electrician shows up and discovers the CEE was not made accessible or had no attachment ?
We have more "dingbats" doing concrete work in this county as we do "homeowner" electrcians. Without a doubt, I am going to find this situation. Seems disturbing an existing footer would brig about an unwanted liability.
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Around here the building inspector must inspect the footing before it's poured. He's also responsible for inspecting the CEE requirement.
 
iwire said:
Here in MA the State building dept sent out a flier to all registered GCs explaining that if they will have rebar in the footing they must hire an EC to pull a permit run a GEC to the rebar and then have it inspected by the electrical inspector.
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Couldn't they just stub a 1/2" rebar out the side of the foundation?
 
wirebender said:
Couldn't they just stub a 1/2" rebar out the side of the foundation?
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No, here the electrical inspector must look at the re-bar to verify NEC compliance if the rebar is to be used for an NEC application.

Besides, I am not sure the local building department would allow rebar to poke out of the footing. That is a place for corrosion to start breaking down the footing.
 
As I read the OP, under the 2008, then by 250.53(A)(3) we would only have to use one or the other CEE, not all of them, IIRC. Are we all agreed on that?

The 2008 is in the car, but that's how I remember the section being reworded.
 
georgestolz said:
As I read the OP, under the 2008, then by 250.53(A)(3) we would only have to use one or the other CEE, not all of them, IIRC. Are we all agreed on that?

The 2008 is in the car, but that's how I remember the section being reworded.
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It's 250.52(A)(3) and it does say one or the other. IMSO
 
infinity said:
He's also responsible for inspecting the CEE requirement.
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This makes no sense to me at all.

Why not let the pool installers bond the pool they install and have the building inspector look at that as well?

I see no good coming from giving away NEC work to other trades and inspectors.
 
iwire said:
This makes no sense to me at all.

Why not let the pool installers bond the pool they install and have the building inspector look at that as well?

I see no good coming from giving away NEC work to other trades and inspectors.
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that's the way we do it, here...(California)
we inspect it all, no "inspector of wires" here. this forum was the first time i heard that term.
 
iwire said:
This makes no sense to me at all.

Why not let the pool installers bond the pool they install and have the building inspector look at that as well?

I see no good coming from giving away NEC work to other trades and inspectors.
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I think that maybe you misunderstood my post. No one is taking work away from the EC's. The building inspector inspects the connection at the time of the footing inspection. The EC is still required to install the CEE. IMO a building inspector is more than qualified to inspect a piece of #4 wire attached to the rebar.
 
iwire said:
No, here the electrical inspector must look at the re-bar to verify NEC compliance if the rebar is to be used for an NEC application.

Besides, I am not sure the local building department would allow rebar to poke out of the footing. That is a place for corrosion to start breaking down the footing.
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Wouldn't a tie between the rebar and the anchor bolts be simpler and better than running a copper conductor into the concrete. Running stranded copper wire into the concrete without a waterstop would also provide a place for corrosion to start.
 
Around here, we have a state rule that allows an electrician to connect a length of small copper wire to the rebar 20 ft from the GEC so the AHJ can verify continuity.
Its been in our rules for a year, but I have yet to meet someone who has done this.
 
way i do it is clamping on to a piece of rebar sticking out of the concrete with a GEC sized to 250.66.

in steel buildings i come up and hit the CCE then hit building steel with one piece of wire
 
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