Condensate pump for furnace

[drcampbell]

How about when there are two compressor stages...

I have the answer to this, (and all related questions) but a lot of guys aren't gonna like it: You need to think about the individual installation.

 

[kwired]

one is the compressor contactor, the other is a valve in the refrigerant lines, break the compressor control and it won't run at all. Or better yet just break the R conductor to the thermostat and nothing runs anyway.

This applies when there is single compressor with two stages that happen to just be the result of some valve changing rate of flow of refrigerant if multiple stages means multiple compressors then you likely need to interrupt the R wire to the thermostat.

 

[Mgraw]

I have the answer to this, (and all related questions) but a lot of guys aren't gonna like it: You need to think about the individual installation.

Yes this is true. There are many possibilities, two speed compressors, multi speed compressors, condensing furnaces, multiple compressors, digital controls(no red or yellow wire), etc.

 

[kwired]

Yes this is true. There are many possibilities, two speed compressors, multi speed compressors, condensing furnaces, multiple compressors, digital controls(no red or yellow wire), etc.

interrupting the main supply conductor for controls still works in all those cases.

 

[mtnelectrical]

anything on the code that says that it needs to be gfi protected?

 

[augie47]

anything on the code that says that it needs to be gfi protected?

If it's in a GFCI required location such as an unfinished basement.

 

[rnatalie]

Some circuits are allowed "no other outlets" such as kitchen counter receptacles,

No. Not just the countertops, all 125V 15/20A receptacles in the kitchens and other related areas (with small exception) It is (as previously mentioned) the SMALL APPLIANCE CIRCUITS in the kitchen are allowed "no other outlets."

The countertop receptacles are only distinguished by needing GFCI (and in later codes all within 6' of the sink).

So in this thread, one has to ask yourself, is that pump in the kitchen (dining, breakfast area, pantry)? If not, it can't be on the small appliance branch circuit feeding the receptacles in the kitchen.

You are right about bathrooms and laundry areas.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Ok but is it code non compliant or code compliant when condensate pump circuit is tied to bedroom receptacle circuit?

I believe you know the answer to this...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

anything on the code that says that it needs to be gfi protected?

Yes as Gus stated, if in crawl space or other areas that req. gfci. I wish they made the pumps direct wired

 

[SceneryDriver]

Yes as Gus stated, if in crawl space or other areas that req. gfci. I wish they made the pumps direct wired

You really want the tin bangers trying to wire these things up?


SceneryDriver

 

[kwired]

You really want the tin bangers trying to wire these things up?


SceneryDriver

No, but they often do anyway. Seen many with the cord cap cut off and wired into the furnace connection box or disconnect - if they had one

 

[JGinIndy]

Ok but is it code non compliant or code compliant when condensate pump circuit is tied to bedroom receptacle circuit?

Condensate pump good to go off a bedroom circuit

 

[kwired]

No, but they often do anyway. Seen many with the cord cap cut off and wired into the furnace connection box or disconnect - if they had one

Unfortunately seen one or two tied to electric furnace branch circuit with no neutral conductor and using the EGC for the neutral

 

[SceneryDriver]

No, but they often do anyway. Seen many with the cord cap cut off and wired into the furnace connection box or disconnect - if they had one

Mine is wired (presumably by the HVAC guys) with the end of a female extension cord that was cut off and wired into the furnace disconnect (toggle switch) with a proper cord grip. It looks to be a nice extension cord too.

Code compliant? No.

Absolutely safe and something I'm not going to loose sleep over? Absolutely yes.


SceneryDriver

 

[drcampbell]

You really want the tin bangers trying to wire these things up? ...

I'm not going to make sweeping generalizations about any profession. (except maybe engineering, because it's my own)

But what I really want? I'd like to see a standardized bracket -- much like standardized motor C-faces -- engineered into the design, which enables the installers to simply hang a condensate pump where one's required, and a standardized connector that provides 120 and 24-volt power, and interrupts the appropriate control conductor when it's plugged in, much like the headphone jack on analog stereo receivers disabled the speakers when a headphone was plugged in.

 

[hbiss]

I'm not going to make sweeping generalizations about any profession. (except maybe engineering, because it's my own)

But what I really want? I'd like to see a standardized bracket -- much like standardized motor C-faces -- engineered into the design, which enables the installers to simply hang a condensate pump where one's required, and a standardized connector that provides 120 and 24-volt power, and interrupts the appropriate control conductor when it's plugged in, much like the headphone jack on analog stereo receivers disabled the speakers when a headphone was plugged in.

I agree with a bracket I guess.

No need for a 120 volt "connector". There is no reason that the HVAC guy can't provide a single receptacle on or next to the AH or furnace off the same circuit to power the pump. Put it right next to the disconnect switch. Most pumps come with a line cord and plug. If the furnace is 208 or 240V and a neutral needs to be run, run it! The furnace (or air handler) disconnect switch should shut down everything related including the condensate pump. Anything else is just sloppy work.

As for the overflow shut off float switch, that is just simple LV wiring done with thermostat wire and wire nuts. Nothing special needs to be done there. It's up to the HVAC installer.

-Hal

 

[drcampbell]

I was envisioning a unique-to-condensate-pumps 6-pole connector inside the furnace and/or air-handler cabinet that provides 120-volt power, 24-volt power, and provision for the float switch. Plug & play, no wiring required. Maybe even a factory-installed option.

And after having actually thought about it for a moment, I've decided it ought to be a four-pole. Omit the 120 altogether and make condensate pumps that run on on 24 volts.

 

[kwired]

I was envisioning a unique-to-condensate-pumps 6-pole connector inside the furnace and/or air-handler cabinet that provides 120-volt power, 24-volt power, and provision for the float switch. Plug & play, no wiring required. Maybe even a factory-installed option.

And after having actually thought about it for a moment, I've decided it ought to be a four-pole. Omit the 120 altogether and make condensate pumps that run on on 24 volts.

Was going to suggest that.

Don't need something that automatically converts anything like when you mentioned the audio jacks automatically cutting out the speakers when you plug in headphone, this shouldn't be something that changes from time to time, just send out from factory with a plug with a jumper in the control circuit, unplug that if adding the condensate pump to remove the jumper and then the float switch is introduced when you plug in the pump assembly. Some electric units already have plug and play wiring harnesses to convert from simple air handler to one with heat strips.

 

[tortuga]

I agree with a bracket I guess.

No need for a 120 volt "connector". There is no reason that the HVAC guy can't provide a single receptacle on or next to the AH or furnace off the same circuit to power the pump. Put it right next to the disconnect switch. Most pumps come with a line cord and plug. If the furnace is 208 or 240V and a neutral needs to be run, run it! The furnace (or air handler) disconnect switch should shut down everything related including the condensate pump. Anything else is just sloppy work.

As for the overflow shut off float switch, that is just simple LV wiring done with thermostat wire and wire nuts. Nothing special needs to be done there. It's up to the HVAC installer.

-Hal

Around here we have furnaces that are all electric. and 240V condensate pumps are common:

https://www.amazon.com/Little-554455-VCMA-20ULS-230-volt-Condensate/dp/B000JGD30O

 

[hbiss]

Around here we have furnaces that are all electric. and 240V condensate pumps are common:

So, I looked up the Little Giant manufacturer's instructions to see what they have to say.

Electrical Connections

Connect the power cord to a constant source of power matching the pump nameplate voltage.
• The pump should be connected or wired to its own circuit, with no other electric receptacles or equipment in the circuit. Do not connect to a fan or any device that runs intermittently.
• The fuses or circuit breaker should be of ample capacity.
• Connect to a circuit equipped with a ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) if required by code. Some models are supplied with a stripped wire cord end. Power connections must be made within a junction box, and must comply with the National Electrical Code. Wires are color coded as follows:
• Green/yellow = Ground; Brown = Line; Blue = Line (230 V) or Neutral (115 V)

Interesting that they call for a dedicated GFI protected circuit.

-Hal