Conductors left in breaker

[JFletcher]

Were the cut and capped circuits labeled "future use" or "spare"? Were the other ends still in the panel, or removed?

I dont care if that's allowable by code, I would have spent 5 minutes removing that. Last thing I want is a wirenut falling off and zapping me while Im in there (yes, I know it should be de-energized first).

 

[iwire]

I see at least two cut wires without wire nuts.

RC

What code section required wirenuts on those conductors?

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts those wire nuts are twisted onto the insulation. Violation 110.3(B).

Get over it.

 

[iwire]

The listing for the wire nuts in the pic are for a minimum of 2 #22, up to 2 #10. Not listed for less than two of any conductor.

https://www.idealind.com/content/pdfs/catalogs/wire-connector-catalog.pdf

Look on page 3.

Fine, we can pull them off and toss them in the trash.

No violation.

 

[K8MHZ]

Fine, we can pull them off and toss them in the trash.

No violation.

That seems to be correct as far as what is written, as far as the product goes. If one wants to be 'by the book' and use a connector for protection, it has to be one listed for use with a single conductor. They do exist, I have seen them at our supply house. Sorry I can't find a link.

As for the real world, I would not use Ideal tans for capping off single conductors. I would use smaller ones, the orange ones work great, as I posted earlier. Ideal yellows are OK for #12, but will fall of a #14.

To me, the real tragedy is using Ideal tans, which are my favorite for actual splicing, where a cheap orange wire nut would work better.

 

[jim dungar]

The listing for the wire nuts in the pic are for a minimum of 2 #22, up to 2 #10. Not listed for less than two of any conductor.

https://www.idealind.com/content/pdfs/catalogs/wire-connector-catalog.pdf

Look on page 3.

Look at page 6, the B-Cap "will even dead end a single #14". But that use is not actually shown in any of the wire combination tables.
Guess it's time to check the UL standards.

 

[K8MHZ]

I'm pretty sure a yellow will say as one of the combinations;

1 to 3 #12

The specs disagree with you.

600V*​

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18 to 10 AWG​

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Min. 2 #18​

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Max. 3 #12​

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https://www.idealind.com/ideal-elec...re-connectors/b-wing-nut-wire-connectors.aspx

 

[K8MHZ]

Look at page 6, the B-Cap "will even dead end a single #14". But that use is not actually shown in any of the wire combination tables.
Guess it's time to check the UL standards.

Good point. What do you think about removing the tans, properly recycling them and replacing them with the B-Caps? I certainly could go with that.

 

[iwire]

Use a wago.

 

[jim dungar]

I am still trying to figure why a table of acceptable combinations would be expected to list single items.

 

[JFletcher]

Use a wago.

Faster to turn off the breaker and remove the wire than strip and install a wago.

 

[iwire]

Faster to turn off the breaker and remove the wire than strip and install a wago.

:thumbsup: I agree.

I have done exactly what is shown in the OPs picture, with regular wirenuts screwed onto the insulation. (Sorry Chris )

Why?

Remodeling and killing circuits for demolition, instead of taking the dead front on and off a dozen or more times I leave it on till at some point I pull it off and clean up all the little chunks of wire.

The issue with taking the dead front off for me usually has to do with the possibility of knocking breakers into the off position that need to stay on.

 

[jaylectricity]

Were the cut and capped circuits labeled "future use" or "spare"? Were the other ends still in the panel, or removed?

I dont care if that's allowable by code, I would have spent 5 minutes removing that. Last thing I want is a wirenut falling off and zapping me while Im in there (yes, I know it should be de-energized first).

It wouldn't be five minutes. You'd have to remove the secondary cover which can be quite large. Even if you do unscrew and pull the cover off now the bolt-on section of the breakers are live and exposed. I know, I know, we have no problem working on a live panel. But there's a difference between plug-ins that cover the bus and bolt-ons which allow a place for a dropped or fallen tool to fall against. Then you short out phase to phase.

It's much easier and safer to cut the wire as shown. Personally I would have cut them a little longer and wrapped them with tape. If you wanted to take a short cut, pull on the insulation a bit until extends a bit past the conductor.

 

[GoldDigger]

I am still trying to figure why a table of acceptable combinations would be expected to list single items.

As used in probability and statistics, a combination can easily have one or (in some cases) even zero members.

 

[JFletcher]

It wouldn't be five minutes. You'd have to remove the secondary cover which can be quite large. Even if you do unscrew and pull the cover off now the bolt-on section of the breakers are live and exposed. I know, I know, we have no problem working on a live panel. But there's a difference between plug-ins that cover the bus and bolt-ons which allow a place for a dropped or fallen tool to fall against. Then you short out phase to phase.

It's much easier and safer to cut the wire as shown. Personally I would have cut them a little longer and wrapped them with tape. If you wanted to take a short cut, pull on the insulation a bit until extends a bit past the conductor.

The secondary cover was already removed in the pics shown. Depends on where this is if you can kill the panel. Hospital? Probably not. And not that you'd want to cause a fault in a busy factory or w/e.

I'd bet $100 those wires were cut with the panel/bus still hot. and I'd bet another $100 the electrician who cut them did not verify the breakers being in the "off" position actually killed power to the circuits they were cutting. I doubt an electrician did the pictured work at all, given the replies on this thread.

Not trying to be a smart ass but two words: insulated screwdriver. But I will give you that it might not be a literal 5 minutes, and that some of those covers are heavier than one person might be able to safely manage removing from a panel.

I work very conservatively around/on live gear. I may not follow OSHA rules on everything, but I do want to go home everyday, and not blow up something of the customer's, making me look like an idiot.

 

[DEW202001]

The secondary cover was already removed in the pics shown. Depends on where this is if you can kill the panel. Hospital? Probably not. And not that you'd want to cause a fault in a busy factory or w/e.

I'd bet $100 those wires were cut with the panel/bus still hot. and I'd bet another $100 the electrician who cut them did not verify the breakers being in the "off" position actually killed power to the circuits they were cutting. I doubt an electrician did the pictured work at all, given the replies on this thread.

Not trying to be a smart ass but two words: insulated screwdriver. But I will give you that it might not be a literal 5 minutes, and that some of those covers are heavier than one person might be able to safely manage removing from a panel.

I work very conservatively around/on live gear. I may not follow OSHA rules on everything, but I do want to go home everyday, and not blow up something of the customer's, making look like an idiot.

The wires where cut by a electrician. He is a Forman on a job that I inspect for the state. Worse workmanship I have ever seen with this guy.


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[iwire]

I'd bet $100 those wires were cut with the panel/bus still hot. and I'd bet another $100 the electrician who cut them did not verify the breakers being in the "off" position actually killed power to the circuits they were cutting. I doubt an electrician did the pictured work at all, given the replies on this thread.

I claim to be an electrician and I have done exactly what was in the picture. :huh::weeping:

 

[DEW202001]

I claim to be an electrician and I have done exactly what was in the picture. :huh::weeping:

Well it's more than just this picture.


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[JFletcher]

I claim to be an electrician and I have done exactly what was in the picture. :huh::weeping:

Oh, the shame. LOL. I wouldnt have done it that way, not saying other ways are wrong. and idc about wirenuts being rated for more than one conductor. I can understand that removing the deadfront may knock off breakers that you dont want off. But that's a moot point here. That DF/ secondary cover IS off. That risk is already taken.

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Was the panel schedule changed to reflect the abandoned/cut circuits?

Dew 202001, I'm sure he had his reasons, like iwire mentioned previously. and if this was a hospital or huge assembly line, I can understand not pulling the df/secondary cover due to the chance of tripping critical circuits in the process.

For every rule, there is an exception, or extraordinary circumstance.

 

[norcal]

I see at least two cut wires without wire nuts.

RC

Looks like those breakers are tripped also.

 

[kwired]

Oh, the shame. LOL. I wouldnt have done it that way, not saying other ways are wrong. and idc about wirenuts being rated for more than one conductor. I can understand that removing the deadfront may knock off breakers that you dont want off. But that's a moot point here. That DF/ secondary cover IS off. That risk is already taken.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Was the panel schedule changed to reflect the abandoned/cut circuits?

Dew 202001, I'm sure he had his reasons, like iwire mentioned previously. and if this was a hospital or huge assembly line, I can understand not pulling the df/secondary cover due to the chance of tripping critical circuits in the process.

For every rule, there is an exception, or extraordinary circumstance.

I guess one maybe needs to define what primary and secondary cover means, in the OP there is still one more cover to remove before you can get a screwdriver on the breaker lugs.