conduit burial

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renosteinke said:
All humor aside ... I disagree with Iwire.

Code only says bending equipment must be 'identified.' It says nothing about listing, labeling, approvals, certifications, manufacture, or that the thing must be store-bought.

I'd love to see which section any inspector would cite. NEC does not define 'identified.' All I need do is write 'pipe bender' on it. About all he could say was that using a Sharpie might not be 'durable' or 'legible' enough, and ask for a nicer ("clearer") identification.

Heck, there's nothing to keep Iwire from letting me sell him one. Gee willikers, now the thing is "commercially manufacturered for the purpose."

Side note ... charcoal as the heat source ... try it some time- you just might like it! Nice, even heat, no 'warm-up' once you get it going, great for the first bend, as well as any fine adjustments.

Second side note ... bring some burgers ... every wise guy will see the thing and ask about lunch .... come lunch time you can grill yours in fron of them. Payback, you know. :)
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Are you doing the bending with the charcoal?

We went through the heating vs. bending thing a while back and I don't think we came to a solid conclusion.

The code says bending. I don't see anything there that tells us how we have to heat the pipe before we bend it.

Are your hands identified for use as a bender?

If the NEC means to say that the means to heat plastic pipe shall be done with a device identified for the purpose, why don't they say it?

FWIW, a heat gun made for paint stripping works great for heating PVC, at least the small stuff. Also, if you just have to use a torch and manage to brown up a few spots, automotive primer will hide them perfectly.
 
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juz4kix said:
This is the way I see it.
The concrete cover only applies when there is rock then "the raceways shall be covered by a minimum of 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete extending down to rock." If there is no solid rock at the bottom of the trench concrete is moot.
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cowboyjwc
That would be correct.
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Then what is the purpose of the second and the fourth row of numbers in table 300.5?
 
Hv&Lv said:
Then what is the purpose of the second and the fourth row of numbers in table 300.5?
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Would you rather I let you cover it with 2" of concrete? Or would you rather I make you blast out the rock?

As was stated before; "Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table....." No mention of columns or location.

Also, identified means labeled as a "PVC bender". If we want to get cute, them all we have to do is carve "EMT bender" into a tree trunk and presto.
 
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cowboyjwc said:
Would you rather I let you cover it with 2" of concrete? Or would you rather I make you blast out the rock?

As was stated before; "Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table....." No mention of columns or location.

Also, identified means labeled as a "PVC bender". If we want to get cute, them all we have to do is carve "EMT bender" into a tree trunk and presto.
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I am going to assume that was meant for the parking lot in the OP rather than everywhere else.
I got off track and was talking about concrete cover somewhere other than a parking lot...:ashamed:
 
cowboyjwc said:
Would you rather I let you cover it with 2" of concrete? Or would you rather I make you blast out the rock?

As was stated before; "Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table....." No mention of columns or location.

Also, identified means labeled as a "PVC bender". If we want to get cute, them all we have to do is carve "EMT bender" into a tree trunk and presto.
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Dual wheels on the job trailer make a great 2' EMT bender!:lol:
 
renosteinke said:
NEC does not define 'identified.'
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I have to disagree. Given the definition I think it is ultimately up to the AHJ to "recognize" the bending equipment.
Having said that, I use a heat gun for the small stuff.

Identified (as applied to equipment). Recognizable as
suitable for the specific purpose, function, use, environment,
application, and so forth, where described in a particular
Code requirement.
FPN: Some examples of ways to determine suitability of
equipment for a specific purpose, environment, or application
include investigations by a qualified testing laboratory
(listing and labeling), an inspection agency, or other organizations
concerned with product evaluation.
 
Just for illustration, here are a pair of pics of the "PVC BBQ:"

PVCBBQ.jpg


PVCBBQcoals.jpg



As simple as it looks, it took a few tries to get it 'right.'

The biggest issue is keeping it from damaging whatever it sits on. A combination of a 1" raised deck inside the box, air intake holes in the bottom, and 'thin' strut feet proved necessary.

Oddly enough, laying the cover over the pipe, trying to trap heat, doesn't help as much as you might think. Most of the heating by the coals seems to be by 'radiation,' rather than from contact with hot air/ smoke.

The original rubber gasket was replaced by a fiberglass 'stove' gasket. This lets you extinguish the coals fairly quickly by smothering; no need to plug the vent holes on the bottom.

The box - a 'small' box for 40mm ammo- is about 18" long, letting me warm up a reasonable length of pipe. It's surprisingly difficult to scorch or even discolor the pipe using this method.

Yes, you DO have to let it cool before you put it back in the truck. You also have to cover the bottom vent holes (duct tape), or the ashes will work their way out.

There is also room for improvement .... for example, some manner of cradle to hold the pipe over the heat, and a better hood to drape over the pipe as it heats.
 
Reno:
I have to give you an A+ for creativeness!! That said, if I didn't see ya cooking the conduit, and it was not "well done" (scars, bubbles, etc) I guess I would never know how you heated the PVC.

I have issues with 'toasted', burned, crumpled, etc. PVC. You say 'no damage' to yours, to that I say...no problem!

As to the heater/bender debate; the heater is required to soften the PVC, and the person is the 'bender', by hand or by jig.

BTW, I came accross a few trees that worked for 2" EMT, and a few guys that use the exhaust pipe from their truck to heat PVC, and a spackle bucket for a jig.
 
As simple as it looks, it took a few tries to get it 'right.'

The biggest issue is keeping it from damaging whatever it sits on. A combination of a 1" raised deck inside the box, air intake holes in the bottom, and 'thin' strut feet proved necessary.

Oddly enough, laying the cover over the pipe, trying to trap heat, doesn't help as much as you might think. Most of the heating by the coals seems to be by 'radiation,' rather than from contact with hot air/ smoke.

The original rubber gasket was replaced by a fiberglass 'stove' gasket. This lets you extinguish the coals fairly quickly by smothering; no need to plug the vent holes on the bottom.

The box - a 'small' box for 40mm ammo- is about 18" long, letting me warm up a reasonable length of pipe. It's surprisingly difficult to scorch or even discolor the pipe using this method.

Yes, you DO have to let it cool before you put it back in the truck. You also have to cover the bottom vent holes (duct tape), or the ashes will work their way out.

There is also room for improvement .... for example, some manner of cradle to hold the pipe over the heat, and a better hood to drape over the pipe as it heats.[/QUOTE]

I would try 3 pieces of hanger wire bent to form 3 cradles to support the PVC in the box and a section of aluminum reflector from a lighting retrofit kit. The polished aluminum should reflect heat as well as light.
 
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