conduit burial

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I have a charcoal-filled ammo box that I have "identified" for use bending plastic pipe.

What is 'identified?" I just point and say 'there it is!'

Absent actual damage (charring) of the pipe, there's no violation.

Now, for the obvious question ... why charcoal? Because the very reason I'm there is because there is no electricity!

Off on a side note ... I'd rather see the parking lot pipe under 12" of non-compressing DG "sand" than under 24" of the crud that came out of the hole, along with whatever trash they can toss in there. Every rock point concentrates forces on the pipe, and that's not a good thing. I think we worry too much about depth and not enough about fill and compaction.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Yes, nothing in 300.5 says anything about it being covered with concrete except for note 5, but you have to have the rocky conditon.
We are talking about table 300.5, right? There are two rows dedicated to concrete cover. One with 2" of concrete, the other with 4" of concrete.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Maybe I missed something. I don't see table 300.5 that way.
I do. IMO, if it is a concrete commercial driveway or parking lot then the pvc still must be 24" deep--although I can see that as misleading and 2" of concrete would change things.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
I do. IMO, if it is a concrete commercial driveway or parking lot then the pvc still must be 24" deep--although I can see that as misleading and 2" of concrete would change things.
I am not arguing that. If it is a parking lot, no matter the surface, then 24" is the minimum unless there is a need for note 5.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
Note 5 does not apply to commercial driveways. If you encounter solid rock you blast! Columns 1,2,3,4,5 all say 24" min cover
I don't see anything in Note 5 about commercial driveways. It says where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table ....
The table lists all types of installations. There might be a local code, but I don't see anything regarding commercial in that note.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Note 5 does not apply to commercial driveways. If you encounter solid rock you blast! Columns 1,2,3,4,5 all say 24" min cover
5. Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table, the wiring shall be installed in metal or nonmetallic raceway
permitted for direct burial. The raceways shall be covered by a minimum of 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete extending down to rock.


Where does this tell me it doesn't relate to commercial driveways?
 

Steviechia2

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I don't see anything in Note 5 about commercial driveways. It says where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table ....
The table lists all types of installations. There might be a local code, but I don't see anything regarding commercial in that note.
I totally agree ! Note 5 has nothing to do with driveways, roads, highways, alleys,and parking lots. 24" min depth with or without concrete.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I have a charcoal-filled ammo box that I have "identified" for use bending plastic pipe.

What is 'identified?" I just point and say 'there it is!'

Absent actual damage (charring) of the pipe, there's no violation.
:lol:

So there is no violation because you have identified it?

That is some funny stuff.

The inspector would be on solid ground failing you based on 352.24 regardless of how you feel about it and you could be replacing all your coal bent PVC.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
I totally agree ! Note 5 has nothing to do with driveways, roads, highways, alleys,and parking lots. 24" min depth with or without concrete.
I believe you are reading too much into it. Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table,
Notice it doesn't say what specific installation it covers or doesn't cover. It states, again, Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table...

Notes 1-3 and 5 pertain to the entire table. Notice how note 4 is specific to columns.
You chose to add the part about having nothing to do with commercial driveways.
The NEC will tell you what you are allowed to do by what is written. It can also tell you what you can do by what is not written...
 

Steviechia2

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I believe you are reading too much into it. Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table,
Notice it doesn't say what specific installation it covers or doesn't cover. It states, again, Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table...

The problem was I didn't read all of it! I knew this but for some reason I just read over it to quickly! :ashamed1:
 
concrete cover

concrete cover

This is the way I see it.
The concrete cover only applies when there is rock then "the raceways shall be covered by a minimum of 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete extending down to rock." If there is no solid rock at the bottom of the trench concrete is moot.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
This is the way I see it.
The concrete cover only applies when there is rock then "the raceways shall be covered by a minimum of 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete extending down to rock." If there is no solid rock at the bottom of the trench concrete is moot.
That would be correct.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
All humor aside ... I disagree with Iwire.

Code only says bending equipment must be 'identified.' It says nothing about listing, labeling, approvals, certifications, manufacture, or that the thing must be store-bought.

I'd love to see which section any inspector would cite. NEC does not define 'identified.' All I need do is write 'pipe bender' on it. About all he could say was that using a Sharpie might not be 'durable' or 'legible' enough, and ask for a nicer ("clearer") identification.

Heck, there's nothing to keep Iwire from letting me sell him one. Gee willikers, now the thing is "commercially manufacturered for the purpose."

Side note ... charcoal as the heat source ... try it some time- you just might like it! Nice, even heat, no 'warm-up' once you get it going, great for the first bend, as well as any fine adjustments.

Second side note ... bring some burgers ... every wise guy will see the thing and ask about lunch .... come lunch time you can grill yours in fron of them. Payback, you know. :)
 
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