Steviechia2
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
Even with concrete on top of the conduit you still have to be 24"
conduit burial
- Thread starter PEDRO ESCOVILLA
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Yes, nothing in 300.5 says anything about it being covered with concrete except for note 5, but you have to have the rocky conditon.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Even a first year apprentice should be able to understand T300.5.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
I have a charcoal-filled ammo box that I have "identified" for use bending plastic pipe.
What is 'identified?" I just point and say 'there it is!'
Absent actual damage (charring) of the pipe, there's no violation.
Now, for the obvious question ... why charcoal? Because the very reason I'm there is because there is no electricity!
Off on a side note ... I'd rather see the parking lot pipe under 12" of non-compressing DG "sand" than under 24" of the crud that came out of the hole, along with whatever trash they can toss in there. Every rock point concentrates forces on the pipe, and that's not a good thing. I think we worry too much about depth and not enough about fill and compaction.
What is 'identified?" I just point and say 'there it is!'
Absent actual damage (charring) of the pipe, there's no violation.
Now, for the obvious question ... why charcoal? Because the very reason I'm there is because there is no electricity!
Off on a side note ... I'd rather see the parking lot pipe under 12" of non-compressing DG "sand" than under 24" of the crud that came out of the hole, along with whatever trash they can toss in there. Every rock point concentrates forces on the pipe, and that's not a good thing. I think we worry too much about depth and not enough about fill and compaction.
We are talking about table 300.5, right? There are two rows dedicated to concrete cover. One with 2" of concrete, the other with 4" of concrete.
Maybe I missed something. I don't see table 300.5 that way.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I do. IMO, if it is a concrete commercial driveway or parking lot then the pvc still must be 24" deep--although I can see that as misleading and 2" of concrete would change things.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
I am not arguing that. If it is a parking lot, no matter the surface, then 24" is the minimum unless there is a need for note 5.
Stevareno
Senior Member
- Location
- Dallas, TX
In that case, I would use a pre-fab 45 and torch heat another piece to 8 degrees.
I have never come across that situation with underground PVC installation. In any case, I'm sure I would have enough room in the ditch to get around a 1 inch object. :happyyes:
Steviechia2
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
Note 5 does not apply to commercial driveways. If you encounter solid rock you blast! Columns 1,2,3,4,5 all say 24" min cover
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
I don't see anything in Note 5 about commercial driveways. It says where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table ....
The table lists all types of installations. There might be a local code, but I don't see anything regarding commercial in that note.
5. Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table, the wiring shall be installed in metal or nonmetallic raceway
permitted for direct burial. The raceways shall be covered by a minimum of 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete extending down to rock.
Where does this tell me it doesn't relate to commercial driveways?
Steviechia2
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
I totally agree ! Note 5 has nothing to do with driveways, roads, highways, alleys,and parking lots. 24" min depth with or without concrete.
- Location
- Massachusetts
:lol:
So there is no violation because you have identified it?
That is some funny stuff.
The inspector would be on solid ground failing you based on 352.24 regardless of how you feel about it and you could be replacing all your coal bent PVC.
I believe you are reading too much into it. Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table,
Notice it doesn't say what specific installation it covers or doesn't cover. It states, again, Where solid rock prevents compliance with the cover depths specified in this table...
Notes 1-3 and 5 pertain to the entire table. Notice how note 4 is specific to columns.
You chose to add the part about having nothing to do with commercial driveways.
The NEC will tell you what you are allowed to do by what is written. It can also tell you what you can do by what is not written...
Steviechia2
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
juz4kix
Member
- Location
- Catonsville, MD U.S.A.
concrete cover
concrete cover
This is the way I see it.
The concrete cover only applies when there is rock then "the raceways shall be covered by a minimum of 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete extending down to rock." If there is no solid rock at the bottom of the trench concrete is moot.
concrete cover
This is the way I see it.
The concrete cover only applies when there is rock then "the raceways shall be covered by a minimum of 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete extending down to rock." If there is no solid rock at the bottom of the trench concrete is moot.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
That would be correct.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
All humor aside ... I disagree with Iwire.
Code only says bending equipment must be 'identified.' It says nothing about listing, labeling, approvals, certifications, manufacture, or that the thing must be store-bought.
I'd love to see which section any inspector would cite. NEC does not define 'identified.' All I need do is write 'pipe bender' on it. About all he could say was that using a Sharpie might not be 'durable' or 'legible' enough, and ask for a nicer ("clearer") identification.
Heck, there's nothing to keep Iwire from letting me sell him one. Gee willikers, now the thing is "commercially manufacturered for the purpose."
Side note ... charcoal as the heat source ... try it some time- you just might like it! Nice, even heat, no 'warm-up' once you get it going, great for the first bend, as well as any fine adjustments.
Second side note ... bring some burgers ... every wise guy will see the thing and ask about lunch .... come lunch time you can grill yours in fron of them. Payback, you know.
Code only says bending equipment must be 'identified.' It says nothing about listing, labeling, approvals, certifications, manufacture, or that the thing must be store-bought.
I'd love to see which section any inspector would cite. NEC does not define 'identified.' All I need do is write 'pipe bender' on it. About all he could say was that using a Sharpie might not be 'durable' or 'legible' enough, and ask for a nicer ("clearer") identification.
Heck, there's nothing to keep Iwire from letting me sell him one. Gee willikers, now the thing is "commercially manufacturered for the purpose."
Side note ... charcoal as the heat source ... try it some time- you just might like it! Nice, even heat, no 'warm-up' once you get it going, great for the first bend, as well as any fine adjustments.
Second side note ... bring some burgers ... every wise guy will see the thing and ask about lunch .... come lunch time you can grill yours in fron of them. Payback, you know.
- Status