Conduit In Trench

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Hmmm. If I can assemble one 2" and one 4" every 15 minutes, that's 40 ft/hour, or 2.5 hours/100 ft, or 12.5 total hours.

I would want a helper to maintain that pace, so double that for 25 man/hours. With ends, we should do it in two days.


Do I get the job? :giggle:
 
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cdslotz

Senior Member
Maybe he just want to double check. To be honest the labor hours I put down I would lower to win the job I personally could do 100 in an hour if supplier dropped off.
It’s only 10 sticks to glue and throw in.
Probably would lower the labor hr by 2-3 hr per 100 feet.
.I wonder what NECA hr are 15 hr per 100 lol
For 2”
This is why I never argue published man/hrs. They were developed using an average of conditions. Of course you would save time if the supplier dropped them off. But on the next job the supplier only sends out half of what you ordered and didn't tell you. You spend the rest of the day hunting down the rest at Home Depot or spending it on the phone to other suppliers.
I'm not going to quibble over that 500' of pipe in my estimate that has maybe 3000 or 6000 estimated man/hrs. I'm going with what the book says. It's up to me to break the job down and manage what's in my estimate to come out at the end with a savings on labor
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
This is why I never argue published man/hrs. They were developed using an average of conditions. Of course you would save time if the supplier dropped them off. But on the next job the supplier only sends out half of what you ordered and didn't tell you. You spend the rest of the day hunting down the rest at Home Depot or spending it on the phone to other suppliers.
I'm not going to quibble over that 500' of pipe in my estimate that has maybe 3000 or 6000 estimated man/hrs. I'm going with what the book says. It's up to me to break the job down and manage what's in my estimate to come out at the end with a savings on labor
You also need to have fudge factors in some cases, or maybe you don't have the most qualified help - but if so they probably paid less so therefore it kind of balances out when it takes more time to install. What will be most costly is needing to re-do significant portions of the work, especially if it got buried then discovered something wasn't right later on.
 

cdslotz

Senior Member
You also need to have fudge factors in some cases, or maybe you don't have the most qualified help - but if so they probably paid less so therefore it kind of balances out when it takes more time to install. What will be most costly is needing to re-do significant portions of the work, especially if it got buried then discovered something wasn't right later on.
"It's up to me to break the job down and manage what's in my estimate to come out at the end with a savings on labor"
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
"It's up to me to break the job down and manage what's in my estimate to come out at the end with a savings on labor"
Be careful with those words. It will take whatever it takes to install properly which can be specifications or code items that compose what is proper. Saving on labor - I guess depends on whether you mean saving on how much was actually paid to the workers or on what the customer actually spent. Do it wrong and have to come back to correct something might not cost the customer anything but will cost the contractor if he is paying his workers for something he will not get any more reimbursement from customer for.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
He does, but yet he's constantly asking about how many man/hrs to do things that have been researched and documented for decades....even before computers. My electrical labor unit book I have from 1986 says...
2" 7 lbr hours
4" 11lbr hours
I guess he doesn't trust published labor units or something. I never question or argue labor units if I use the column that fits the installation
Your book is not actual for 2” and 4”. Doesn’t take that long to lay pvc in trench. So your point is. It valid. With all due respect
 

cdslotz

Senior Member
Your book is not actual for 2” and 4”. Doesn’t take that long to lay pvc in trench. So your point is. It valid. With all due respect
I can't believe you've been estimating for so long and you still don't understand how labor units work....with all due respect
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
I can't believe you've been estimating for so long and you still don't understand how labor units work....with all due respect
I do understand, completely. Be more specific! Your referring to the components that make up a labor unit?
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
You be more specific....what does this mean then?
I'm saying the labor units from your book is generally not what it takes, all things included, to lay conduit in a trench. I've been told and gotten feedback from others in my area that it usually takes half the time your book lists and I assume you use in estimates.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I'm saying the labor units from your book is generally not what it takes, all things included, to lay conduit in a trench. I've been told and gotten feedback from others in my area that it usually takes half the time your book lists and I assume you use in estimates.
why would you tell him this? since it takes less time than the book says, you can use that to your advantage if you know it and don't tell your competitors.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Said book might be factoring in things you are not aware of. Unloading, preparation, clean up, etc.

Or it may leave out things some might think should be included.

You may have a pretty efficient crew and they tend to come out ahead of the book or you may have a slow or inexperienced crew and hope they at least come out pretty close to what the book said.

You could also have some malfunction, equipment break down, get slowed up by other trades for some reason, etc. that you could end up having to eat cost on or at least try to get some trade or reimbursement from whoever is responsible for the problem.
 

horsegoer

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
why would you tell him this? since it takes less time than the book says, you can use that to your advantage if you know it and don't tell your competitors.
I'd think most people know it doesn't take 7 hours(2") and 11 hours(4") to lay pvc in a trench( including ALL factors)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'd think most people know it doesn't take 7 hours(2") and 11 hours(4") to lay pvc in a trench( including ALL factors)
Does the book state what those hours all account for? If anything there might be some things that if you don't pay attention you might try to include separately.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Does the book state what those hours all account for? If anything there might be some things that if you don't pay attention you might try to include separately.
Got 2 different books, each show different amounts and they both have what is included in their time estimate. So got to be careful in using like you said.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Got 2 different books, each show different amounts and they both have what is included in their time estimate. So got to be careful in using like you said.
I could see what appears to be high not being quite so high if it includes things like prepping base of trench with sand, unloading and carrying pipe any distance across the site, placing pipe, maybe even covering with sand before general back filling occurs.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I could see what appears to be high not being quite so high if it includes things like prepping base of trench with sand, unloading and carrying pipe any distance across the site, placing pipe, maybe even covering with sand before general back filling occurs.
Does it include coffee breaks and shovel leaning?
 

cdslotz

Senior Member
I'd think most people know it doesn't take 7 hours(2") and 11 hours(4") to lay pvc in a trench( including ALL factors)
Do me a favor.......you have estimating software right?
Tell us the first column labor for 2" and 4"...........and be honest
 
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