Conduit VS sleeve

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How about if you ran the sleeve up under the a/c unit. now it is protected from direct weather effects. is it now a damp location as opposed to a wet one?
 
220/221 said:
In resi work where all the wiring is NM, it makes sense to stub the cable out of the building to your AC, eve lights or new circuits from the outdoor panel.....and then sleeve them for protection.
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LarryFine said:
Yes, but you would not use NM inside the AC whips from the disco to the compressor unit; you'd use wet-rated conductors.
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So, you're saying, in your opinion, it is legal for NM cable to occupy an enclosure in a wet location?
 
rlMutch said:
So, you're saying, in your opinion, it is legal for NM cable to occupy an enclosure in a wet location?
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I'd say yes. The inside of a wet locaton rated elclosure in a wet location is not a wet location. The inside of a raceway is.... Still.
 
rlMutch said:
So, you're saying, in your opinion, it is legal for NM cable to occupy an enclosure in a wet location?
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I am, at least into disco's and exterior panels.

iwire said:
I can not believe this thread is still going.....:confused:
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energizer-bunny.jpg
 
LarryFine said:
I am, at least into disco's and exterior panels.
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Based on what?

The number of times we all do it? :D

Of course if the inside of an outdoor enclosure is a wet location we would need devices rated for wet loctions.....


2008 NEC....WP receptacles...:D
 
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I think that the code should be changed. If the terms "really really wet location, and "extremely wet" locations were added to the code (along with text to make the book even thicker), it would greatly simplify the meanings associated with these terms, and more fun would be had by all.
 
nakulak said:
I think that the code should be changed. If the terms "really really wet location, and "extremely wet" locations were added to the code (along with text to make the book even thicker), it would greatly simplify the meanings associated with these terms, and more fun would be had by all.
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How about "really really wet location, when..." and "extremely wet, when..."

FPN: When: when it is raining; when it is snowing; when the inspector says so. :cool: :grin:

I put it in an FPN, as this would add to the adventure;)
 
petersonra said:
does the code even give a definition of wet location?
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" A location that is not dry and more then damp" :smile:
 
The thread is still going because there are still unanswered questions.

Again, can you sleeve NM in a DAMP location?




Personally, I don't know and I wouldn't be able to find out by looking in the book. That's why I am asking here, hoping for guidance.

I HAVE noticed that often, more than one answer is given which means I am not alone in my confusion.
 
220/221 said:
Again, can you sleeve NM in a DAMP location?
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LarryFine said:
That depends on your take on 334.12(A)(10)d.
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Larry referred (post #78) to a section that doesn't exist... right neighborhood, wrong street. :wink:

The answer is going to be exactly the same as for wet, which is to say "no" IMO -- although this thread is still going much to iwire's chagrin. At any rate, if you think it's not OK for wet, it's definitely not OK for damp either -- and vice versa.

See 334.12(B)(4) in NEC 2008 which is not a change per se, but rather a clarification.

7-50 Log #201 NEC-P07 Final Action: Accept
(334.12)
____________________________________________________________
TCC Action: The Technical Correlating Committee directs the panel to
clairfy the action on this proposal. This action will be considered by the
panel as a public comment.
NOTE: The following proposal consists of Comment 7-104 on Proposal 7-
115 in the 2004 May Meeting National Electrical Code Committee Report
on Proposals. This comment was held for further study during the
processing of the 2004 NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE. [Refer to
Proposal 7-49 (Log#200)]
Submitter: Noel Williams, Noel Williams Consulting
Recommendation: This proposal should be rejected or accepted in principle
with the additional change:
Revise 334.12(B)(4) to read ?In wet or damp locations.?
Substantiation: This proposal will create more problems than it will solve.
The comments on Negative by Mr. Brown, Mr. Schumacher, and Mr. Stewart
should be more carefully considered. The explanation of negative by Gotham
(ROP 7-8) is also applicable here. The idea could work, but it must first be
coordinated with UL listing information, which currently refers to Article 334.
In particular, the language about ?normally dry locations? has been completely
lost, and the remaining language ?where exposed to excessive moisture or
dampness? is too vague to be useful in enforcement. Wet and damp locations
are well defined.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Number Eligible to Vote: 14
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 14
____________________________________________________________
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?where exposed to excessive moisture or
dampness?

see, I would change this to the two terms I suggested in other thread.

"excessive dampness" would be changed to "really really damp"

and

"excessive moisture" would be changed to "extremely wet"

thus clarifying everything lol.
 
Going, Going, Going....
electricmanscott said:
I'd say yes. The inside of a wet locaton rated elclosure in a wet location is not a wet location. The inside of a raceway is.... Still.
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See, here's why this makes no sense. The environment inside an outdoor enclosure is the same as inside an outdoor conduit with rain-tight fittings. We even allow this environment to enter our enclosures above live parts if rain-tight fittings are used. We even allow an NM cable to pass through a "wet" location (for a quarter inch or so) on its way from the outside of a house into the back of an outdoor enclosure.
My brain hurts!
 
iwire said:
Based on what? The number of times we all do it?

Of course if the inside of an outdoor enclosure is a wet location we would need devices rated for wet loctions.....
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Exactly. When was the last time you saw a wet-location-rated circuit breaker requirement for an exterior panel or disconnect?


nakulak said:
I think that the code should be changed. If the terms "really really wet location, and "extremely wet" locations were added to the code (along with text to make the book even thicker), it would greatly simplify the meanings associated with these terms, and more fun would be had by all.
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LOL, LOL, LOL!!!


tallguy said:
Larry referred (post #78) to a section that doesn't exist... right neighborhood, wrong street.
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That's where I found it in the 2002 NEC, which is the code sysle in use here in Va:

[quote='02 NEC]334.12 Uses Not Permitted.
(A) Types NM, NMC, and NMS. Types NM, NMC, and
NMS cables shall not be used as follows:

(10) Types NM and NMS. Types NM and NMS cable shall
not be used as follows:

d. Where exposed or subject to excessive moisture or
dampness[/quote]
 
LarryFine said:
Exactly. When was the last time you saw a wet-location-rated circuit breaker requirement for an exterior panel or disconnect?
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Exactly is right. :)

So can you explain how an outdoor raceway is a 'wet location' but any outdoor rain tight enclosure it runs into is a 'dry location'?

I see an issue coming up in the future over this.
 
iwire said:
Exactly is right. :)

So can you explain how an outdoor raceway is a 'wet location' but any outdoor rain tight enclosure it runs into is a 'dry location'?

I see an issue coming up in the future over this.
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230.8 and 300.5(G) majically turn wet locations into dry ones!
 
chris kennedy said:
230.8 and 300.5(G) majically turn wet locations into dry ones!
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230.8 only requires a seal when entering a building, not an enclosure.

300.5 only applies to conduits that are underground.

Picture a feeder run outside to a 3R distribution panel, from that panel all the conduits run outside on the exterior of a building.

The conduits are wet location but as soon as they enter the panel it must be a dry location as breakers can only be installed in dry locations.

Further I can not wrap my head around the fact that a more or less water tight pipe is a wet location but a 3R enclosure with all it's holes is a dry location.
 
The interior of a 3R enclosure, below the live parts may is a wet location. Why else would that enclosure have drain holes?
Don
 
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