Connecting UFER to a ground rod

[KaBoom!]

A long time customer is having a new 2 car garage put up. I was not available when the footing and floor were being poured and the company doing the work said that they knew exactly what to do and would take care of it. I figured they would turn up a piece of rebar out of the floor into where the wall would be They left us with this:



I know that I can extend it using irreversible means, but I am curious about something else. I believe it would be code compliant to connect that CEE directly to the ground rod which I will be installing there anyway. I would have to use a #4 to connect the ground rod to the panel instead of the normal #6, though. Do you agree that is compliant?

Second question, I am looking for an inexpensive crimper to use to extend #4 copper. I do resi service and have no other need for a crimper. I just want to use C-crimps on (2) #4 copper cables. I need to find the crimps and proper crimper. I don't need something big and expensive like the Burndy MD6.

I have done a lot of searching here and other places and see people talking about this, but when trying to find the actual crimper and a supply of the proper crimps I come up short- the same with talking to the supply house guys. Does anyone know of an online source for a crimper like this and the proper crimps?

 

[texie]

A long time customer is having a new 2 car garage put up. I was not available when the footing and floor were being poured and the company doing the work said that they knew exactly what to do and would take care of it. I figured they would turn up a piece of rebar out of the floor into where the wall would be They left us with this:

View attachment 20995

I know that I can extend it using irreversible means, but I am curious about something else. I believe it would be code compliant to connect that CEE directly to the ground rod which I will be installing there anyway. I would have to use a #4 to connect the ground rod to the panel instead of the normal #6, though. Do you agree that is compliant?

Second question, I am looking for an inexpensive crimper to use to extend #4 copper. I do resi service and have no other need for a crimper. I just want to use C-crimps on (2) #4 copper cables. I need to find the crimps and proper crimper. I don't need something big and expensive like the Burndy MD6.

I have done a lot of searching here and other places and see people talking about this, but when trying to find the actual crimper and a supply of the proper crimps I come up short- the same with talking to the supply house guys. Does anyone know of an online source for a crimper like this and the proper crimps?

As to the first question, yes. Just connect it to he ground rod with an acorn clamp. You gotta wonder though about the part of the green #4 we can see.
Second question, the MD6 is fairly reasonable in price compared to many others. But if you do just resi, why bother?

 

[KaBoom!]

Second question, the MD6 is fairly reasonable in price compared to many others.

The MD6 is great for many purposes, but I only need to do #4 crimps so I would rather something smaller.

But if you do just resi, why bother?

I find myself needing to crimp #4 GEC's often. Whether it be to extend a GEC in a generator job or fix a mistake, or a multi-family service in which the inspector wants the bonding jumpers to each panel to be irreversibly spiced.

 

[infinity]

The MD6 is great for many purposes, but I only need to do #4 crimps so I would rather something smaller.

I find myself needing to crimp #4 GEC's often. Whether it be to extend a GEC in a generator job or fix a mistake, or a multi-family service in which the inspector wants the bonding jumpers to each panel to be irreversibly spiced.

If you're using a CEE why do you need a ground rod? An inspector cannot make you use irreversible connectors when they're not required by the NEC.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I had one like that. Instead of using a irreversible connection. I installed an additional ground rod right there. I put both wires right there with two acorn clamps.

 

[KaBoom!]

If you're using a CEE why do you need a ground rod?

Since there is no water going to this garage, I thought I would need the rods as the supplemental grounding. I admit I haven't really looked into this part of the code in a while since I don't do much new construction.

An inspector cannot make you use irreversible connectors when they're not required by the NEC.

That's the thing, many people see it as being required. Not only inspectors, but I have even seen members of this forum and others say that in a multi-family service the bonding jumpers should be irreversibly connected. So I figure I would just get a crimper since I need it to extend GECs as well.

 

[infinity]

Since there is no water going to this garage, I thought I would need the rods as the supplemental grounding. I admit I haven't really looked into this part of the code in a while since I don't do much new construction.

That's the thing, many people see it as being required. Not only inspectors, but I have even seen members of this forum and others say that in a multi-family service the bonding jumpers should be irreversibly connected. So I figure I would just get a crimper since I need it to extend GECs as well.

The inspector should know the difference between a bonding jumper and a GEC but you can use irreversible connections if you so choose even when they're not required. Since there is no water pipe electrode the CEE is all that's required.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think what Trevor is saying is that if you bring a #4 to the ground rod and continue to the ufer then the ufer is a supplemental electrode and does not require a continuous connection. Do away with the rod then the ufer is the main electrode and the conductor needs to be continuous. Hate to post and run but gotta go dancing.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I had one like that. Instead of using a irreversible connection. I installed an additional ground rod right there. I put both wires right there with two acorn clamps. ​

Then used other ground rods like you would normally. It's a compliant way to extend the wire.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I had one like that. Instead of using a irreversible connection. I installed an additional ground rod right there. I put both wires right there with two acorn clamps. ​

Then used other ground rods like you would normally. It's a compliant way to extend the wire.

Not a bad idea but a lot of work.

 

[KaBoom!]

Not a bad idea but a lot of work.

I was going to drive 2 ground rods anyway until Infinity schooled me

Now I only have to drive one, and Hilti will do all the work :lol:

I’d still like the crimper though. I just want to get a small crimper with freely available crimps.

 

[packersparky]

I was going to drive 2 ground rods anyway until Infinity schooled me

Now I only have to drive one, and Hilti will do all the work :lol:

I’d still like the crimper though. I just want to get a small crimper with freely available crimps.

Why do you have to drive a ground rod? A UFER grounding electrode does not require a supplemental electrode. An irreversible crimp to extend the #4 GEC to the panel is all that is needed.

 

[texie]

Why do you have to drive a ground rod? A UFER grounding electrode does not require a supplemental electrode. An irreversible crimp to extend the #4 GEC to the panel is all that is needed.

The OP now understands that the ground rod is not required. He is just using it as away to extend the GEC from the Ufer as he does not yet have a crimp tool.

 

[electrofelon]

Second question, I am looking for an inexpensive crimper to use to extend #4 copper. I do resi service and have no other need for a crimper. I just want to use C-crimps on (2) #4 copper cables. I need to find the crimps and proper crimper. I don't need something big and expensive like the Burndy MD6.

I have done a lot of searching here and other places and see people talking about this, but when trying to find the actual crimper and a supply of the proper crimps I come up short- the same with talking to the supply house guys. Does anyone know of an online source for a crimper like this and the proper crimps?

Something like this?

http://jennytools.com/?product=dieless-adjustable-crimp-tool

 

[KaBoom!]

Something like this?

http://jennytools.com/?product=dieless-adjustable-crimp-tool

I would prefer a smaller hand sized ratcheting crimper since I am only looking to do #4.

But for the sake of conversation, let's say that I did purchase that model crimper. Which crimps would I use to join (2) #4's in both an extending or tapping configuration? Are they listed for grounding?


EDIT: An example of what I would want is something like this: https://www.specialized.net/tools/b...compression-tool-ratchet-crimper-8-2-awg.html

Has anyone used this type? If so, where can I can the proper C-crimps for it?

 

[infinity]

We have used these crimpers for years and really like them. You can buy a kit with barrel style connectors or buy the the tool and crimps separately.

https://www.specialized.net/tools/b...it-ratcheting-crimper-compression-system.html

 

[KaBoom!]

Infinity, that's nice. I see that it lists C-Tap Connectors which will work for GEC taps. :happyyes: A bit expensive though :jawdrop: I was hoping to keep it at $200 or less.

 

[infinity]

Infinity, that's nice. I see that it lists C-Tap Connectors which will work for GEC taps. :happyyes: A bit expensive though :jawdrop: I was hoping to keep it at $200 or less.

You could buy the bare tool for a little over $200 and then only buy the individual connectors that you need. Besides it a high quality tool so it should last for years and pay for itself.

 

[KaBoom!]

I see, that would be perfect, but now that I look closer is seems as if the C-Tap connectors won't do (2) #4's :rant: https://www.specialized.net/amfile/file/download/file_id/682/product_id/9596/

Now that I think about it, I remember this issue the last time I looked for a crimper and got so discouraged that I just started using a Cadweld 1-shot :lol:

 

[infinity]

I see, that would be perfect, but now that I look closer is seems as if the C-Tap connectors won't do (2) #4's :rant: https://www.specialized.net/amfile/file/download/file_id/682/product_id/9596/

Now that I think about it, I remember this issue the last time I looked for a crimper and got so discouraged that I just started using a Cadweld 1-shot :lol:

Curious as to why you need C taps, (but it would be nice to use them if you purchased a tool)? If it's for a bonding jumper then you don't need irreversible connectors just use one of these.