Connecting UFER to a ground rod

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packersparky

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david said:
i do not see how it is concluded the NEC continuous without spicing the GEC is being applied incorrectly.

The illustration of GEC taps with multi and ganged service disconnects is specifically allowed in the NEC
and the grounding electrode conductor conductor is still required to be with out splice unless irreversible


And just for what it is worth i do not see a splice in the GEC or the bonding conductors bonding the grounding electrodes together in the illustration of the grounding electrode system that posted here in 27
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The OP stated that inspectors are requiring that the GEC taps be connected to the GEC using irreversible means.
 
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KaBoom!

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packersparky said:
Another diagram from the NEC handbook that deals with taps to the GEC. The GEC does not have to terminate in a service disconnect.

View attachment 21021


I don't think Infinity's remark was meant as derogatory towards you, rather towards inspectors that apply the NEC incorrectly.
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This was a reply in another thread to that same diagram.
Dennis Alwon said:
I have seen that graphic for years and have always thought it was not accurate. Of course it does not state what type of connection is to be made there....

I don't really see it as a bonding jumper tho. Extend those wires back to the grounding electrode and they both connect to the water pipe (for example) are they bonding jumpers. The grounding electrode conductor must be continuous and stopping it short and basically splicing it means it is not continuous.

If there were only one panel and I stopped the grounding electrode conductor short and added a short piece would that be a jumper or a spliced grounding electrode conductor. IMO, that is a spliced grounding electrode conductor in both cases
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While I agree with the people who say it is compliant to use a splitbolt, I do not agree that it is as crystal clear as people are saying. And it is a real world issue without any clarification from the state, so there is no choice but to do when the AHJ says to.
 
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packersparky

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KaBoom! said:
This was a reply in another thread to that same diagram.


While I agree with the people who say it is compliant to use a splitbolt, I do not agree that it is as crystal clear as people are saying. And it is a real world issue without any clarification from the state, so there is no choice but to do when the AHJ says to.
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I agree that the conductors in question are not bonding jumpers, they are GEC taps. 250.64(D) covers them and allows the connections to be made by any of the means listed in 250.64(D)(1), (2), or (3). See the code language in post #38
 
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KaBoom!

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packersparky said:
I agree that the conductors in question are not bonding jumpers, they are GEC taps. 250.64(D) covers them and allows the connections to be made by any of the means listed in 250.64(D)(1), (2), or (3). See the code language in post #38
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Again: While I agree with the people who say it is compliant to use a splitbolt, I do not agree that it is as crystal clear as people are saying. And it is a real world issue without any clarification from the state, so there is no choice but to do when the AHJ says to.

You don't have to convince me, you have to convince Dennis and some of the AHJ's in my area :lol:
 
jumper

jumper

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KaBoom! said:
Again: While I agree with the people who say it is compliant to use a splitbolt, I do not agree that it is as crystal clear as people are saying. And it is a real world issue without any clarification from the state, so there is no choice but to do when the AHJ says to.

You don't have to convince me, you have to convince Dennis and some of the AHJ's in my area :lol:
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I find this confusing since NJ has a state wide code.

IIRC, members from NJ have specifically, in previous threads, have cited contact info for NJ for code issues. Some lady I think.
 
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KaBoom!

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jumper said:
I find this confusing since NJ has a state wide code.

IIRC, members from NJ have specifically, in previous threads, have cited contact info for NJ for code issues. Some lady I think.
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Her name is Suzanne and she left long ago. Not only did she leave her job, but she left a big hole in the system. Here is the chain of discussion in this thread about contacting the state as you mentioned:

infinity said:
For the record here in NJ you can call or email the DCA to get an interpretation.
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KaBoom! said:
Have you actually tried that since Suzanne left? Rob was OK, but today they simply won't help, and I was forced by law to go back and make an irreversible connection on multiple jobs.
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infinity said:
I hear you. I submitted a question a year ago and was not happy with the response because they made no determination as to what was actually required.
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infinity

infinity

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KaBoom! said:
Her name is Suzanne and she left long ago. Not only did she leave her job, but she left a big hole in the system. Here is the chain of discussion in this thread about contacting the state as you mentioned:
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I agree. :)

It's funny because I attend CEU seminars with many different electrical inspectors and I'm often surprised at how many times I here comments like "I made him do it that way because that's how I wanted it done".
 
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KaBoom!

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Funny you mentioned that. The instructor at my CEU class this year actually complained a few times at how EC's can go to the state and have their calls reverse :lol::lol:

If you don't like it, don't make wrong calls in the first place!
 
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KaBoom!

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Dennis Alwon said:
Any crimp lug would work if it is rated for outdoor or direct burial. Of course you would need a crimp tool.
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Am I interpreting this incorrectly?

250.64(C)(1) Splicing of the wire-type grounding electrode conductor shall be permitted only by irreversible compression-type connectors listed as grounding and bonding equipment or by the exothermic welding process.

Dennis Alwon said:
I thought there was a new irreversible connector that was designed to be installed with a hammer. It had pins that you hit that indented the connector. I can't find it.
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Dennis, you have been talking about this unicorn connector for years now. I have a $50 bill for you if you A) actually find it, B) it is a reasonable price, and C) it is compliant. I am not kidding, I would much rather mail you $50 for dancing lessons than spend $200+ on something I will never use for any other purpose.
 
jumper

jumper

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KaBoom! said:
Am I interpreting this incorrectly?

250.64(C)(1) Splicing of the wire-type grounding electrode conductor shall be permitted only by irreversible compression-type connectors listed as grounding and bonding equipment or by the exothermic welding process.


Dennis, you have been talking about this unicorn connector for years now. I have a $50 bill for you if you A) actually find it, B) it is a reasonable price, and C) it is compliant. I am not kidding, I would much rather mail you $50 for dancing lessons than spend $200+ on something I will never use for any other purpose.
Click to expand...

Dennis may be thinking of these, connects GEC to rods, irreversible and you use a hammer. They are not for splicing.

https://www.erico.com/category.asp?category=R2421
 
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KaBoom!

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Dennis, what about the code requirement for it to be "listed as grounding and bonding equipment"?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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KaBoom! said:
Dennis, what about the code requirement for it to be "listed as grounding and bonding equipment"?
Click to expand...

What about it? Most connections are listed that way. Acorns are listed for the purpose and can be buried in concrete. Not sure what you are asking,.

I have an idea-- take the #4 wire that you have and put a split bolt- most are listed for grounding and bonding and some are listed for db and in concrete. Then pour a bag of concrete around the connector. It is irreversible now.... I think that may be legit. I am thinking the reason to be irreversible is so that the connection cannot loosen so the concrete would deal with that.
 
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KaBoom!

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Dennis Alwon said:
What about it? Most connections are listed that way. Acorns are listed for the purpose and can be buried in concrete. Not sure what you are asking,.
Click to expand...
Dennis, you said that "Any crimp lug would work if it is rated for outdoor or direct burial." But the code specifically says that it needs to be listed as grounding and bonding equipment. I do not know about acorns, but I do know that none of the crimps I have looked at from Burndy or T&B say that they are listed as grounding or bonding equipment. So that would mean that they are not code compliant, would it not?
 
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