copper and aluminum connections?

[bohl1076]

just wondering if it is acceptable to splice aluminum and copper wires together? i know i have to keep in mind the allowable ampacities of both stay above the max load, but is this acceptable? is there anything else?

 

[76nemo]

just wondering if it is acceptable to splice aluminum and copper wires together? i know i have to keep in mind the allowable ampacities of both stay above the max load, but is this acceptable? is there anything else?

Acceptable?,......sure with rated connectors. Do I want to add on to AL? Nope. Let others disagree:roll: Are you dealing with a breaker box or fuse panel?

No chance of pulling new back to the panel?

 

[kwired]

Acceptable?,......sure with rated connectors. Do I want to add on to AL? Nope. Let others disagree:roll: Are you dealing with a breaker box or fuse panel?

No chance of pulling new back to the panel?

Doesn't it really come down to what exactly you are trying to junction and why you may wish to junction it?

If 12 or 10 AWG solid aluminum conductors then you should do everything you can to try to eliminate it altogether.
If 6 - 4 AWG stranded aluminum you may need to look into what it takes to replace vs to splice together.

If larger than 4 AWG and not short pieces needing replaced splicing is generally acceptable.

Of course you must use splicing devices designed for aluminum and copper if splicing.

 

[bohl1076]

well customer wanted to use his existing 6/3 that was going to his oven (now is a gas oven), to feed a new spa,but i'll have to splice onto it as it is not long enough. however it just dawned on me that it could be aluminum, cause i didn't think to check that!!! would i be ok if i used nolax? (not sure if i spelled that right)

 

[hurk27]

First many Spa/hot manufactures will require #6 copper as a minimum wire size, and some will even require it to be on a 60 amp breaker which #6 aluminum will not be rated for, so reading the manufacture installation instructions will be the first step, if all the above is ok then I would say there are many UL listed aluminum to copper splice kits on the market, some pricey and some no too bad, but it must be listed for splicing aluminum to copper, I use the Ideal DB 4-wire kits as they have 4 terminals, with a heat shrink to cover the splice, which also has a hot melt glue inside it that melts and seals the splice, Ideal also makes a wire nut called a twister listed for aluminum to copper, but not sure if they go this big?

But read the instructions first, as I wouldn't want to be answering to the owner if you void the manufactures warranty.

 

[bohl1076]

yeah thanks, the spa spec's only say to have 50amp/220v, but like i said i didn't even think to look at the wire to see what it was i just assumed it was copper. so i'll have to find out tomorrow what the situation is.
thanks again,
john

 

[LarryFine]

well customer wanted to use his existing 6/3 that was going to his oven (now is a gas oven), to feed a new spa . . .

Also, if that 6/3 includes the bare conductor it its conductor count, you may be out of luck anyway, as very few spas do not require a neutral.

Please don't even consider using one conductor for both neutral and EGC for a spa.

 

[76nemo]

Doesn't it really come down to what exactly you are trying to junction and why you may wish to junction it?

If 12 or 10 AWG solid aluminum conductors then you should do everything you can to try to eliminate it altogether.
If 6 - 4 AWG stranded aluminum you may need to look into what it takes to replace vs to splice together.

If larger than 4 AWG and not short pieces needing replaced splicing is generally acceptable.

Of course you must use splicing devices designed for aluminum and copper if splicing.

Sure does K, but as my own stupid little rule, I don't like to add to it. I'll leave it alone, or I'll pull fresh. Okay, here's where many will say "I'll take the job". Okay fine. Am I scared of the original install?,....no, but I will choose to leave it alone. Now by tomorrow after work I will see that some find me ignorant and accept the project. That's fine. Is it acceptable?....You betcha. Do I want it? No, not without pulling it fresh.

I am sure to be laughed at over this, that's okay.

 

[kwired]

well customer wanted to use his existing 6/3 that was going to his oven (now is a gas oven), to feed a new spa,but i'll have to splice onto it as it is not long enough. however it just dawned on me that it could be aluminum, cause i didn't think to check that!!! would i be ok if i used nolax? (not sure if i spelled that right)

Just how long of a run are we trying desparately to save every dime we possibly can?

Splice it with polaris connectors, add the cost of a J box and a ground lug, and it can cost about same as replacing with a 30 foot piece of 6-3 w gnd, and I did not figure in labor for making up the connections.

Another poor guy that can afford a hot tub but can't afford to hook it up.

Have you told him how much the GFCI breaker will cost?

 

[poeboy]

I may be opening my mouth just to insert my foot in it here, but I'll take that chance

A long time ago when I was in the Phili area an inspector failed my installation of a spa because it was required to be in conduit from the panel to the disconnect. I had all 4 properly sized wires there, but I had used cable, not conduit. I don't know if that was a local amendment or if it is in article 680 (i think that is the right one), but the net result was I had to re do the work.

The jist of the above paragraph is to check with your local authority before doing anything. They may have their own local codes that are enforced.

 

[haskindm]

well customer wanted to use his existing 6/3 that was going to his oven (now is a gas oven), to feed a new spa,but i'll have to splice onto it as it is not long enough. however it just dawned on me that it could be aluminum, cause i didn't think to check that!!! would i be ok if i used nolax? (not sure if i spelled that right)

Look at article 680,42(C). Unless his 6/3 includes a coper ground wire, you are out of luck. You will probably also need 4 conductors as others have stated, but regrdless, the equipment ground wire must be copper...
That is assuming that the hot-tub itself is located outside.

 

[bohl1076]

well i got lucky, his existing was copper so i didn't have to do anything "out of the ordinary", but thank you to everyone that has responded. everyone is a wealth of information. thanks again!

 

[LarryFine]

well i got lucky, his existing was copper so i didn't have to do anything "out of the ordinary"...

Yes, but 3 or 4 conductors, and how many do the spa require?

 

[LeoJackson]

Wow if it was at a residence that really doesnt make sense to me. I've always used cable and sleeved it outside to the disconnect. I agree though some times local amendments will bite you.