Copper Clad Aluminum NM vs Copper NM for Small Scale Multifamily

electrofelon said:
anyone know what the price difference is between a roll of 10-2 CCA VS 12-2 CU?
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Found a 250' roll of 12/2 Copperweld CCA NM on E bay for $70. Another site wants $279 ( yes $279 ) for a 250' roll of 10/2 Copperweld CCA NM . Could not locate any on Amazon. Southwire & Copperweld both make CCA NM Cable. Like others posted would not use it in my house.
 
ron said:
It is aluminum conductors with a copper coating, so they get sized based on aluminum. If the copper is scraped off during termination or insulation striping, you essentially have AL conductors.
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It doesn't scrap off or even get cut through when using spring type wirenuts. The thickness of the copper cladding must be at least 2.56% of the diameter and the copper must make up at least 10% of the total conductor cross sectional area.
 
letgomywago said:
For this I don't see a benefit but if 50 bucks a roll is the range I could see it making sense.

Remember we run lighting on crazy low power now and most will get off their high horse at a certain dollar amount.
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Yeah What would be nice is some smaller wire, maybe 18GA for lighting circuits, at least for the load wire coming out of a switch. Such a waste to run 14 up to even say a six pattern of lights which is going to pull like half an amp.
 
electrofelon said:
Yeah What would be nice is some smaller wire, maybe 18GA for lighting circuits, at least for the load wire coming out of a switch. Such a waste to run 14 up to even say a six pattern of lights which is going to pull like half an amp.
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I'd love to use it for that I'd want something to account for the short circuit other than the breaker though. Like a dimmer with build in over current. I'd rather sell a dimmer with 6 cans and 18awg after the first can for the same price as the switch alone would be.
 
garbo said:
Found a 250' roll of 12/2 Copperweld CCA NM on E bay for $70. Another site wants $279 ( yes $279 ) for a 250' roll of 10/2 Copperweld CCA NM . Could not locate any on Amazon. Southwire & Copperweld both make CCA NM Cable. Like others posted would not use it in my house.
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electrofelon said:
ok so $70 vs $90 for a roll of 14-2 ramen. No thanks.
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Another problem if you were to use 10/2 CCA NM cable for 20 amp circuits it would involve using larger boxes. Its fun almost needing two shoe horns & a rubber mallet to install the extra deep receptacles with built in USB ports that have two 14 or 12/2 NM cables in older metal wall cases.
 
The 10-20% savings on 12-10ga CCA vs copper NM has never been that attractive to me compared to the downsides. Between box fill allowances, and having to use CCA approved wire nuts, I don't really see the savings unless you're wiring cookie cutter tract homes to code minimum.

Once you get to 30a and higher, it's a completely different story. 10/3 NMB is about $1.50/ft right now. 6/3 al SER is about $1/ft. Has made lots of sense pulling 6/3 ser to dryers and AC units for years.

Same goes for a range, 50a range ckt, 6/3 NMB, $3+/ft right now. $1/ft for 6/3 al SER.

Box fill doesn't change, receptacles and breakers are dual rated at 30-50a.

Getting into pipe and wire 100a+ feeders, it's insane to pull copper if you have the choice right now. Nearly 4x the cost to pull copper in.
 
petersonra said:
I like ramen. Although those prices seem kind of high.

:)
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I have no experience with the new stuff, but I've worked with the old CCA a few times now. Based on that, I'd say no thanks.

The CCA I've seen is an odd gauge, like 13 ga for 15 amps and 11 ga for 20 amps. So it didn't strip as easily, taking more time.

The old stuff was really bendable and seems fragile. This would make me take more time being careful when pulling it. I have a way with durable copper that would be interrupted if the new stuff is the same.

I'm an avowed back-stabber, and you're not gonna back-stab CCA into a device. That extra time curling wires at every device would probably make me say no.

What kind of connectors? Special wire nuts or lever lock Wagos? Extra cost for materials might outweigh any wire savings.

For me, it just seems like an overreaction to copper prices 3 or 4 years ago.
 
So you can supply a given quantity of lights with a smaller circuit?

Big deal! :rolleyes:

I'd rather supply a larger quantity of lights with the same-sized circuit.

That's money-saving.
 
James L said:
For me, it just seems like an overreaction to copper prices 3 or 4 years ago.
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I'm pretty sure it was being used in tract homes 3-4 years ago. So probably saving a more significant amount of money then. We are just hearing more about it now as word travels around.

Now that they have the mfg infrastructure (and installers) in place they are not going to shut down the line because copper went down a little.

The mfr wants it to be in place ready to ramp up should copper suddenly rise again.

Some guy I saw said, get used to it, it is here to stay. We will at least be doing service work on it down the road, we need to be familiar with it.
 
Birken Vogt said:
Some guy I saw said, get used to it, it is here to stay. We will at least be doing service work on it down the road, we need to be familiar with it.
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That's very true. At first glance it looks the same. I'm sure there would be a lot of guys not knowing what it is and treat it just like copper
 
LarryFine said:
Isn't that supposed to be one of its selling points (other than ampacity)?
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I don't think so, is it?
CCA is supposed to be terminated with CO/ALR terminals, which would include devices.

Considering it looks like regular copper, I would imagine most guys will just use regular wire nuts and regular devices 🫤
 
James L said:
I don't think so, is it?
CCA is supposed to be terminated with CO/ALR terminals, which would include devices.

Considering it looks like regular copper, I would imagine most guys will just use regular wire nuts and regular devices 🫤
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I would think there would be a distinct difference in the feel and bending.
But it would probably just go over a lot of apprentice and J men's head. And they would treat it like copper.
 
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